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General Asylum General audio topics that don't fit into specific categories. |
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In Reply to: Mcintosh lawyer harassing me - Part 2 posted by Ethannnn on February 25, 2004 at 11:45:35:
i usually write pretty detailed description about items that i'm selling on ebay or audiogon. cuz it generates better sales and whatever i omited, people usually will ask about it.but some people seem to prefer simple one-sentence description such as
"original owner, two weeks old, mint, questions welcome"
if we are to follow McIntosh's logic, those who prefer to keep their ad simple for whatever reason should not buy and sell McIntosh?
from what i understand, the issue is not about transferable warranty but something more fundamental.
freedom to choose the way you conduct business!
i just don't understand those who seem to support McIntosh's view on this whole fiasco. some of u have no problem giving up their rights?
from what i've seen, there shouldn't even be a controversy here
just my 0.02
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Follow Ups Full ThreadTopic - Mcintosh lawyer harassing me - Part 2 - Ethannnn 11:45:35 02/25/04 (248)
- So.. what about "Like Unused"? - bwhite 20:42:24 02/27/04 (0)
- So.. what about "Like Unused"? - bwhite 20:31:33 02/27/04 (0)
- Like new.... - slope 09:56:33 02/27/04 (4)
- I Say Sue eBay...How Dare They... - Dr. Draz 15:01:24 02/27/04 (0)
- Excellent! But...are you sure that interjecting facts... - rp1@surfnetusa.com 11:58:57 02/27/04 (1)
- Ok..diffrn't view....."like new"..."like new"... - slope 19:50:50 02/27/04 (0)
- That's not going to satisfy some people - J 10:03:45 02/27/04 (0)
- FREEDOM!!! - jealouse 19:40:56 02/26/04 (0)
- People! - photoguy 19:13:58 02/26/04 (2)
- Re: People! - Raiderman 16:16:32 02/27/04 (0)
- Amen, brother. - Tromatic 21:18:10 02/26/04 (0)
- Basically, Ethannn's ad should have read........ - Redstarman 17:11:41 02/26/04 (1)
- Re: Basically, Ethannn's ad should have read........ - SLL 09:27:21 02/27/04 (0)
- This is for Don T..... - rp1@surfnetusa.com 13:26:55 02/26/04 (5)
- Please excuse Don T on this one... - Ivan303 15:19:39 02/26/04 (2)
- Don sounds like my recently deceased dad.... - rp1@surfnetusa.com 15:58:19 02/26/04 (0)
- ...a drummer with some semblance of rhythm (or death), I hope. :-) nt - Methos 15:50:23 02/26/04 (0)
- Re: This is for Don T..... - Don T 14:16:21 02/26/04 (1)
- Don (And I Don't Say This With Anger), Your Reality And Ours Are Clearly Very Different... - Dr. Draz 15:16:48 02/26/04 (0)
- Possible economic motive behind McIntosh's stance (long) - Bayside Bomber 11:08:50 02/26/04 (5)
- This brings up another issue of protecting dealers and exclusive areas... - bhvf 13:50:05 02/26/04 (1)
- Re: This brings up another issue of protecting dealers and exclusive areas... - Bayside Bomber 15:22:30 02/26/04 (0)
- I think this is an excellent analysis of what Mc was trying to do........... - Chuck Y 12:32:38 02/26/04 (0)
- Re: Possible economic motive behind McIntosh's stance (long) - Dalton 12:12:35 02/26/04 (1)
- Manifesto!!! - Bayside Bomber 12:25:49 02/26/04 (0)
- Thank you - Ethannnn 07:10:17 02/26/04 (46)
- Okay, I'm convinced... - Jim Austin 09:14:55 02/26/04 (0)
- Re: Thank you - Don T 08:39:17 02/26/04 (41)
- "Facsimile Of New", "Was New Two Weeks Ago", "If You Bought It 15 Days Ago It Would Have Been New.".. - Dr. Draz 11:16:42 02/26/04 (1)
- Laugh! - Don T 13:06:54 02/26/04 (0)
- Re: Thank you - middleground 10:52:55 02/26/04 (2)
- Re: Thank you - Don T 11:34:12 02/26/04 (1)
- ? - RGA 21:41:19 02/26/04 (0)
- Re: Thank you - Sordidman 09:38:33 02/26/04 (35)
- Re: Thank you - Don T 10:32:00 02/26/04 (34)
- That's a big, big, big stretch.... - Sordidman 11:35:22 02/26/04 (12)
- What's so hard about it for you guys? - Don T 11:54:27 02/26/04 (11)
- Two weeks old is not like new? - Sordidman 12:13:33 02/26/04 (10)
- Even further adding to the possible confusion... - Don T 12:25:45 02/26/04 (9)
- Oh, - I see...... - Sordidman 13:46:19 02/26/04 (8)
- No you don't! - Don T 14:12:53 02/26/04 (7)
- I see your point... - rp1@surfnetusa.com 14:27:10 02/26/04 (6)
- Re: I see your point... - Don T 14:36:42 02/26/04 (5)
- I think that I see the problem here... - rp1@surfnetusa.com 14:46:05 02/26/04 (4)
- Re: I think that I see the problem here... - Don T 14:57:36 02/26/04 (3)
- You just cannot grasp that... - rp1@surfnetusa.com 15:35:29 02/26/04 (2)
- Re: You just cannot grasp that... - Don T 17:33:56 02/26/04 (1)
- Frankly I have... - rp1@surfnetusa.com 19:08:08 02/26/04 (0)
- After a post like that... - Charles Hansen 10:55:20 02/26/04 (1)
- Re: After a post like that... - Don T 11:09:25 02/26/04 (0)
- Re: Thank you - tom1356 10:46:42 02/26/04 (16)
- About 5 years ago when I was experiment with jazz... - Don T 12:19:06 02/26/04 (15)
- Hey Don - J 14:15:39 02/26/04 (11)
- J your a funny guy! - Don T 14:21:01 02/26/04 (10)
- ha ha ha - J 15:23:25 02/26/04 (6)
- Re: ha ha ha - Don T 17:46:05 02/26/04 (5)
- J, as a "super intellect with stunning brilliance"..... - Rini 05:48:06 02/27/04 (1)
- It means she's been deceived on an audio purchase on Ebay - J 06:47:45 02/27/04 (0)
- Re: ha ha ha - J 18:26:00 02/26/04 (2)
- Re: ha ha ha - Don T 18:58:44 02/26/04 (1)
- Re: ha ha ha - J 20:53:23 02/26/04 (0)
- It all hinges on the term "like new".... - rp1@surfnetusa.com 14:33:05 02/26/04 (2)
- Hi, this is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.......... - Sordidman 16:26:39 02/26/04 (1)
- It doesn't make any difference. - Don T 17:57:57 02/26/04 (1)
- So you do understand the language you just choose to be wrong. nt - tom1356 12:50:04 02/26/04 (2)
- No I chose "no deception" and truth in advertising not fishing for uninformed buyers <nt> - Don T 12:56:46 02/26/04 (1)
- I'm glad the people with enough disposable income to blow $5k on mid-fi amps have you on their side. - tom1356 13:07:06 02/26/04 (0)
- Another way the ad is misleading... - Jim Austin 10:35:49 02/26/04 (1)
- Re: Another way the ad is misleading... - Don T 11:00:53 02/26/04 (0)
- Re: Thank you - osera 07:59:57 02/26/04 (0)
- Rights and logic VS. Owner emotion - tnelson 07:39:01 02/26/04 (0)
- Take 'Em To Court Ethan [nt] - Dr. Draz 07:16:52 02/26/04 (0)
- Come on, spill it... - Jim Austin 06:11:21 02/26/04 (0)
- I think the biggest issue here is..... - Redwing 05:32:40 02/26/04 (1)
- Re: I think the biggest issue here is..... - middleground 10:55:55 02/26/04 (0)
- Re: Not that there was ever a worry... - Jim Willis 03:41:07 02/26/04 (0)
- I’m surprised there are actually people defending Cooper and Mcintosh - Caymus 23:09:48 02/25/04 (6)
- And I'm surpised people are bashing Mac based on so little info. - Tromatic 00:25:49 02/26/04 (5)
- Please list the "facts" that are in dispute.... (nt) - Sordidman 12:18:40 02/26/04 (3)
- Re: Please list the "facts" that are in dispute.... (nt) - Tromatic 13:37:45 02/26/04 (2)
- Well, for one thing... - rp1@surfnetusa.com 15:50:43 02/26/04 (0)
- We Have The Actual Transcripts Of Mr. Cooper's Letters AND The Documented Fact That The Ad Was Pulled By eBay... - Dr. Draz 14:09:18 02/26/04 (0)
- Re: Mcintosh won’t honor warranties like everyone else - Caymus 10:20:34 02/26/04 (0)
- Do you feel the love? It makes me want to rush right out and buy McIntosh. - tnelson 21:43:09 02/25/04 (0)
- Jeeez........ - photoguy 20:58:58 02/25/04 (6)
- I agree - Ken Perkins 09:02:24 02/26/04 (3)
- Re: I don't agree - Raiderman 13:34:36 02/26/04 (1)
- Re: I don't agree - photoguy 18:06:00 02/26/04 (0)
- Oh No....I Think The "Lack Of Sales" And Hassles Goes On The McIntosh Side On This One [nt] - Dr. Draz 09:13:44 02/26/04 (0)
- Agree. What a whiner. Also want to add... - Markw* 06:34:38 02/26/04 (0)
- Re: Jeeez........ - FLZapped 05:57:48 02/26/04 (0)
- Post deletion started - Mei 20:54:13 02/25/04 (1)
- Probably limiting AA liability in a pending libel suit brought by Mac. - Tromatic 00:58:21 02/26/04 (0)
- Again for all thermal spazzes: I'll take your Mac gear, 1 cent on the buck. - Tromatic 19:58:19 02/25/04 (5)
- Remind me to make sure you are not on the jury if I ever wind up in court - Ivan303 20:18:17 02/25/04 (4)
- Re: Remind me to make sure you are not on the jury if I ever wind up in court - racerguy 05:51:50 02/26/04 (3)
- Could be.... - Ivan303 06:20:04 02/26/04 (2)
- Re: Could be.... - racerguy 15:55:18 02/26/04 (1)
- You are correct.... - Ivan303 16:22:27 02/26/04 (0)
- Modarators help! - Corbu 19:58:02 02/25/04 (1)
- Mommmeeeeee - Mei 20:42:44 02/25/04 (0)
- BOYCOTT OF McINTOSH EQUIPMENT - Raiderman 19:25:22 02/25/04 (3)
- I agree - I will never buy an $8k Mac amp that I only plan to keep for 2 wks. (nt) - Gentry 19:45:16 02/25/04 (2)
- LOL, good point! - rp1@surfnetusa.com 15:52:34 02/26/04 (0)
- Me either! no way!! nt - Elizabeth 20:53:09 02/25/04 (0)
- Re: Mcintosh lawyer harassing me - Part 2 - oddmanout 18:57:18 02/25/04 (1)
- "Much ado about nothing" - Ivan303 19:11:53 02/25/04 (0)
- Beating a dead horse! - eargasm666@yahoo.com 18:03:23 02/25/04 (1)
- Huh? - Ivan303 18:10:15 02/25/04 (0)
- Congratulations for publicising this event - theaudiohobby 18:01:44 02/25/04 (0)
- Maybe...McIntosh - Mei 17:24:43 02/25/04 (0)
- "Sellers like you, who would willingly conceal the facts about their products" Patently untrue, you did disclose fully! - Colin 17:07:00 02/25/04 (0)
- is this interesting enough... - osera 16:46:17 02/25/04 (2)
- No - this is a stupid thread and it should die a quick death - Mark B. James 17:11:22 02/25/04 (1)
- Re: No - this is a stupid thread and it should die a quick death - Audioq 11:46:07 02/26/04 (0)
- Re: Mcintosh lawyer harassing me - Part 2 - DaveV 15:49:59 02/25/04 (0)
- 50 years in business and they haven't learned a thing about audiophiles. - tom1356 15:30:42 02/25/04 (2)
- Re: 50 years in business and they haven't learned a thing about audiophiles. - Rich_A 21:58:16 02/25/04 (1)
- Re: 50 years in business and they haven't learned a thing about audiophiles. - tom1356 22:14:05 02/25/04 (0)
- Hmmm - Ralph 15:12:16 02/25/04 (0)
- Here is the Ebay ad - Ethannnn 14:21:41 02/25/04 (33)
- You clearly are lying in your ad! - Don T 20:25:15 02/25/04 (17)
- If the damn things were actually new, he would have described them as 'new', not 'like new'. - Methos 09:34:38 02/26/04 (5)
- They are "used" not "like new" because if the were "like new" they would have a warranty! - Don T 10:18:03 02/26/04 (4)
- Weak... - Charles Hansen 10:56:22 02/26/04 (0)
- Ah, but his amp does have a warranty! - Methos 10:55:19 02/26/04 (2)
- But the point is... - Redwing 17:16:20 02/26/04 (1)
- I'm in agreement on both points. - Methos 19:53:48 02/26/04 (0)
- Re: You clearly are lying in your ad! - middleground 05:17:11 02/26/04 (0)
- Re: You clearly are lying in your ad! - Redwing 05:13:16 02/26/04 (0)
- Be reasonable - Metralla 04:00:36 02/26/04 (0)
- Give Me Rhythm or Give Me a BREAK! - bwhite 22:53:07 02/25/04 (4)
- Amen! -nt - Raiderman 15:45:54 02/26/04 (0)
- Re: Give Me Rhythm or Give Me a BREAK! - Don T 08:42:25 02/26/04 (0)
- Bravo!...Couldn't Have Said It Better Myself [nt] - Dr. Draz 06:37:22 02/26/04 (1)
- agreed <nt> - Don T 08:43:11 02/26/04 (0)
- Re: You clearly are lying in your ad! -READ IT AGAIN!! - carbonman 20:44:52 02/25/04 (2)
- Re: You clearly are lying in your ad! -READ IT AGAIN!! - Dokter-Doug 07:14:23 02/26/04 (1)
- Good move, Herr Dokter!! - Methos 09:39:09 02/26/04 (0)
- Boycott McIntosh! - Raiderman 19:44:04 02/25/04 (0)
- There is no question you did not describe the amps as "not - audiogatorjim 17:21:04 02/25/04 (7)
- Re: There is no question you did not describe the amps as "not - Ivan303 17:40:47 02/25/04 (6)
- No, I am just saying that I bet there exist some bidders who - audiogatorjim 18:36:13 02/25/04 (5)
- The Principle, The Principle My Friend... - Dr. Draz 06:42:05 02/26/04 (1)
- In America, we have the right to choose our battles. I, for one - audiogatorjim 11:34:50 02/26/04 (1)
- Re: No, I am just saying that I bet there exist some bidders who - Ivan303 19:17:57 02/25/04 (2)
- Re: No, I am just saying that I bet there exist some bidders who - JimBop 20:08:20 02/25/04 (0)
- Well...I think some buyers may think the warranty would still - audiogatorjim 19:37:45 02/25/04 (0)
- Re: If that's it, sue 'em! - Matts 14:44:13 02/25/04 (0)
- Re: Here is the Ebay ad - Brian Levy 14:43:35 02/25/04 (0)
- Did the ad ever say 'never installed' anywhere in the text? nt - Methos 14:31:59 02/25/04 (0)
- Re: Here is the Ebay ad - Ethannnn 14:30:21 02/25/04 (2)
- Seems to me that the statement, "The manufacturer's warranty is non-transferable."... - Dalton 20:26:10 02/25/04 (0)
- Ok, lawyerboy must be confused, then. :-) nt - Methos 14:33:11 02/25/04 (0)
- DUILaywer and Lochrider were wrong.... - Charles Hansen 13:38:03 02/25/04 (13)
- Re: DUILaywer and Lochrider were wrong.... - Brian Levy 13:44:59 02/25/04 (12)
- Doesn't change my point one whit... - Charles Hansen 13:50:06 02/25/04 (11)
- Not necessarily - PabloP 13:58:25 02/25/04 (10)
- The "left hand -- right hand" problem - Bruce from DC 14:55:55 02/25/04 (8)
- Sales Manager WANTS to close down internet sales.... - Ivan303 18:33:27 02/25/04 (6)
- Re: Sales Manager WANTS to close down internet sales.... - Bruce from DC 08:00:14 02/26/04 (5)
- Re: Sales Manager WANTS to close down internet sales.... - Dr. Draz 08:12:24 02/26/04 (4)
- I guess I draw a different conclusion - Bruce from DC 11:35:57 02/26/04 (3)
- Re: I guess I draw a different conclusion - Ivan303 20:03:27 02/26/04 (0)
- Re: I guess I draw a different conclusion - Dr. Draz 12:04:12 02/26/04 (1)
- Re: I guess I draw a different conclusion - Bruce from DC 15:49:54 02/26/04 (1)
- I say, C2200/MC2102 combos for every poster, and then All is Forgiven! Are ya with me?? :-) nt - Methos 15:07:51 02/25/04 (0)
- So It's Clear Then...Both Mr Cooper And McIntosh Are Ass Puppets - Jointly And Severally...Now I Get It [nt] - Dr. Draz 14:23:55 02/25/04 (0)
- Re: Mcintosh lawyer harassing me - Part 2 - dude 13:14:01 02/25/04 (0)
- Re: Mcintosh lawyer harassing me - Part 2 - middleground 13:13:29 02/25/04 (1)
- Re: Mcintosh lawyer harassing me - Part 2 - Brian Levy 13:37:34 02/25/04 (0)
- Re: Mcintosh lawyer harassing me - Part 2 - Brian Levy 12:54:36 02/25/04 (5)
- 3/4 - PabloP 13:31:05 02/25/04 (4)
- Re: 3/4 - Brian Levy 13:49:08 02/25/04 (3)
- Re: 3/4 - PabloP 14:00:50 02/25/04 (2)
- Re: 3/4 - Brian Levy 14:25:45 02/25/04 (1)
- Re: Don't be so naive.... - Matts 17:26:33 02/25/04 (0)
- Re: Mcintosh lawyer harassing me - No Kidding- what a jerk! - Matts 12:53:57 02/25/04 (1)
- Totally agreed, Mcintosh will be off from my shopping list forever. (nt) - Anfield 15:37:00 02/25/04 (0)
- What I can't figure out is WHY............ - Chuck Y 12:51:32 02/25/04 (2)
- Hmmm, I've Seen Something Similar Before... - Luminator 14:09:01 02/25/04 (0)
- Re: What I can't figure out is WHY............ - Stephæn 13:03:07 02/25/04 (0)
- Before I post my ad - Ethannnn 12:50:42 02/25/04 (11)
- Re: Before I post my ad - uw312@aol.com 14:33:23 02/25/04 (2)
- Re: who is stopping them?? - Matts 14:38:06 02/25/04 (1)
- Re: who is stopping them?? - uw312@aol.com 14:48:36 02/25/04 (1)
- "like new" search on ebay... - osera 13:11:43 02/25/04 (3)
- Re: "like new" search on ebay... - Ethannnn 13:17:02 02/25/04 (2)
- Re: "like new" search on ebay... - jwhite 13:34:38 02/25/04 (0)
- Re: "like new" search on ebay... - Matts 13:30:07 02/25/04 (0)
- Re: Before I post my ad - Brian Levy 13:04:23 02/25/04 (2)
- Misinterpretation - Ethannnn 13:10:47 02/25/04 (1)
- Post the ad - Brian Levy 13:27:12 02/25/04 (0)
- Most folks here with knowledge of things legal......... - Chuck Y 12:55:19 02/25/04 (0)
- i'm shocked... - jealouse 12:46:00 02/25/04 (0)
- Don't forget to let us know when you get sued by Mac. - Tromatic 12:41:24 02/25/04 (0)
- This is turning into the dumbest freakin'.. - marc-homeslice 12:36:01 02/25/04 (9)
- "It sucks living in corporate "megopoly " America, don't it?!" - mikebake 13:46:00 02/25/04 (8)
- Re: "It sucks living in corporate "megopoly " America, don't it?!" - kentaja@yahoo.com 14:06:13 02/25/04 (7)
- Amen man.. - marc-homeslice 15:01:45 02/25/04 (1)
- Re: Amen man.. - Mr. H 11:42:13 02/27/04 (0)
- Re: "It sucks living in corporate "megopoly " America, don't it?!" - mikebake 14:56:23 02/25/04 (4)
- Guess you didn't own any Enron or Worldcom stock.. - marc-homeslice 15:07:05 02/25/04 (1)
- Re: Guess you didn't own any Enron or Worldcom stock.. - mikebake 15:11:23 02/25/04 (0)
- Re: "It sucks living in corporate "megopoly " America, don't it?!" - kentaja@yahoo.com 15:05:18 02/25/04 (1)
- Re: "It sucks living in corporate "megopoly " America, don't it?!" - mikebake 15:13:37 02/25/04 (0)
- Re: "What I have kept secret until now is, I HAVE PROOF THAT SUBSTANTIATES MY CLAIM." - Jay 12:21:50 02/25/04 (4)
- Ain't it odd? - Stephæn 12:49:12 02/25/04 (3)
- Not sure how relevant this is but... - Ethannnn 12:52:56 02/25/04 (2)
- Re: Not sure how relevant this is but... - Brian Levy 13:11:51 02/25/04 (0)
- I think you pretty much gave him permission ... - Stephæn 12:57:08 02/25/04 (0)
- The fallacy in the argument - Bruce from DC 12:18:07 02/25/04 (4)
- Re: The fallacy in the argument - Jim Willis 03:34:55 02/26/04 (1)
- Re: The answer, I think is at half.com - Matts 10:49:49 02/26/04 (0)
- So Bruce are the statements made by Cooper consistent with the letter of the law? - NonA 12:21:56 02/25/04 (1)
- Re: So Bruce are the statements made by Cooper consistent with the letter of the law? - Bruce from DC 12:49:47 02/25/04 (0)
- Perhaps I ommitted one crucial point - ethannnn 12:17:56 02/25/04 (0)
- Possible Hoax - TommyK 12:09:20 02/25/04 (13)
- Got a call back from Mr. Cooper - TommyK 18:43:27 02/25/04 (1)
- Re: He apparently did more than you say... - Matts 19:02:57 02/25/04 (0)
- Did you check Martindale-Hubble? This guy could be licensed outside of NY.... - Chuck Y 13:06:03 02/25/04 (0)
- I called Mr. Cooper, left message we shall - TommyK 12:54:26 02/25/04 (1)
- You'll note that he's AV rated. - Mark B. James 13:47:38 02/25/04 (0)
- Re: Possible Hoax - slope 12:34:55 02/25/04 (2)
- I'm beginning to wonder, too ... - Stephæn 12:51:07 02/25/04 (1)
- Yeah.. and a LAWYER who... - bwhite 23:20:33 02/25/04 (0)
- McIntosh is owned by Clarion corp ... - bilbobaggins 12:28:34 02/25/04 (2)
- McIntosh is NOT owned by Clarion corp ... - Vinyl Rules! 15:29:08 02/26/04 (1)
- Re: McIntosh is NOT owned by Clarion corp ... - Dibble 02:41:21 02/27/04 (0)
- The McGate Affair or the Wellesien "War of the Mcs"? - NonA 12:13:51 02/25/04 (1)
- You might be on to - mikebake 12:13:19 02/25/04 (0)
- Im no law expert, but you've met a manufact. that decided to enforce applicable laws... - NonA 12:09:17 02/25/04 (0)
- Excellent, McIntosh admits their gear is "overpriced" - Mei 12:08:56 02/25/04 (0)
- Well...maybe - Tom 12:08:11 02/25/04 (0)
- My, my, Wayne Cooper is God! - Norm 12:04:45 02/25/04 (1)
- LOL! (nt) - Charles Hansen 13:40:11 02/25/04 (0)
- Well, it is typical..have a lawyer run your business.. - rick5 11:58:09 02/25/04 (3)
- Mac does have a disclaimer at thier site.. - slope 12:02:42 02/25/04 (2)
- Re: I LIKE that page! - Matts 13:49:01 02/25/04 (1)
- Re: I LIKE that page! - slope 14:51:37 02/25/04 (1)
- Re: Seems like Mr. Cooper's position is reasonable... - mkuller 11:52:38 02/25/04 (6)
- It is NOT Mr. Coopers job to protect the public. Period. His argument does - mikebake 12:08:17 02/25/04 (0)
- Ebay warranty policy.. - rick5 12:06:51 02/25/04 (0)
- I think its the principal.... <nt> - bwhite 11:59:03 02/25/04 (3)
- No, the principal is the one who whacks your ass with the paddle, for starting the cafeteria food fight.... <nt> - Methos 20:42:09 02/25/04 (2)
- principle - bwhite 23:09:26 02/25/04 (1)
- Hey, no problem...just doing my best 'school marm' impression! :-) nt - Methos 11:03:16 02/26/04 (0)
Follow Ups
- FREEDOM!!! - jealouse 19:40:56 02/26/04 (0)
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