The fallacy in the argument - Bruce from DC

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Topic - Mcintosh lawyer harassing me - Part 2 - Ethannnn 11:45:35 02/25/04 (248)

So.. what about "Like Unused"? - bwhite 20:42:24 02/27/04 (0)

So.. what about "Like Unused"? - bwhite 20:31:33 02/27/04 (0)

Like new.... - slope 09:56:33 02/27/04 (4)

I Say Sue eBay...How Dare They... - Dr. Draz 15:01:24 02/27/04 (0)

Excellent! But...are you sure that interjecting facts... - rp1@surfnetusa.com 11:58:57 02/27/04 (1)

Ok..diffrn't view....."like new"..."like new"... - slope 19:50:50 02/27/04 (0)

That's not going to satisfy some people - J 10:03:45 02/27/04 (0)

FREEDOM!!! - jealouse 19:40:56 02/26/04 (0)

People! - photoguy 19:13:58 02/26/04 (2)

Re: People! - Raiderman 16:16:32 02/27/04 (0)

Amen, brother. - Tromatic 21:18:10 02/26/04 (0)

Basically, Ethannn's ad should have read........ - Redstarman 17:11:41 02/26/04 (1)

Re: Basically, Ethannn's ad should have read........ - SLL 09:27:21 02/27/04 (0)

This is for Don T..... - rp1@surfnetusa.com 13:26:55 02/26/04 (5)

Please excuse Don T on this one... - Ivan303 15:19:39 02/26/04 (2)

Don sounds like my recently deceased dad.... - rp1@surfnetusa.com 15:58:19 02/26/04 (0)

...a drummer with some semblance of rhythm (or death), I hope. :-) nt - Methos 15:50:23 02/26/04 (0)

Re: This is for Don T..... - Don T 14:16:21 02/26/04 (1)

Don (And I Don't Say This With Anger), Your Reality And Ours Are Clearly Very Different... - Dr. Draz 15:16:48 02/26/04 (0)

Possible economic motive behind McIntosh's stance (long) - Bayside Bomber 11:08:50 02/26/04 (5)

This brings up another issue of protecting dealers and exclusive areas... - bhvf 13:50:05 02/26/04 (1)

Re: This brings up another issue of protecting dealers and exclusive areas... - Bayside Bomber 15:22:30 02/26/04 (0)

I think this is an excellent analysis of what Mc was trying to do........... - Chuck Y 12:32:38 02/26/04 (0)

Re: Possible economic motive behind McIntosh's stance (long) - Dalton 12:12:35 02/26/04 (1)

Manifesto!!! - Bayside Bomber 12:25:49 02/26/04 (0)

Thank you - Ethannnn 07:10:17 02/26/04 (46)

Okay, I'm convinced... - Jim Austin 09:14:55 02/26/04 (0)

Re: Thank you - Don T 08:39:17 02/26/04 (41)

"Facsimile Of New", "Was New Two Weeks Ago", "If You Bought It 15 Days Ago It Would Have Been New.".. - Dr. Draz 11:16:42 02/26/04 (1)

Laugh! - Don T 13:06:54 02/26/04 (0)

Re: Thank you - middleground 10:52:55 02/26/04 (2)

Re: Thank you - Don T 11:34:12 02/26/04 (1)

? - RGA 21:41:19 02/26/04 (0)

Re: Thank you - Sordidman 09:38:33 02/26/04 (35)

Re: Thank you - Don T 10:32:00 02/26/04 (34)

That's a big, big, big stretch.... - Sordidman 11:35:22 02/26/04 (12)

What's so hard about it for you guys? - Don T 11:54:27 02/26/04 (11)

Two weeks old is not like new? - Sordidman 12:13:33 02/26/04 (10)

Even further adding to the possible confusion... - Don T 12:25:45 02/26/04 (9)

Oh, - I see...... - Sordidman 13:46:19 02/26/04 (8)

No you don't! - Don T 14:12:53 02/26/04 (7)

I see your point... - rp1@surfnetusa.com 14:27:10 02/26/04 (6)

Re: I see your point... - Don T 14:36:42 02/26/04 (5)

I think that I see the problem here... - rp1@surfnetusa.com 14:46:05 02/26/04 (4)

Re: I think that I see the problem here... - Don T 14:57:36 02/26/04 (3)

You just cannot grasp that... - rp1@surfnetusa.com 15:35:29 02/26/04 (2)

Re: You just cannot grasp that... - Don T 17:33:56 02/26/04 (1)

Frankly I have... - rp1@surfnetusa.com 19:08:08 02/26/04 (0)

After a post like that... - Charles Hansen 10:55:20 02/26/04 (1)

Re: After a post like that... - Don T 11:09:25 02/26/04 (0)

Re: Thank you - tom1356 10:46:42 02/26/04 (16)

About 5 years ago when I was experiment with jazz... - Don T 12:19:06 02/26/04 (15)

Hey Don - J 14:15:39 02/26/04 (11)

J your a funny guy! - Don T 14:21:01 02/26/04 (10)

ha ha ha - J 15:23:25 02/26/04 (6)

Re: ha ha ha - Don T 17:46:05 02/26/04 (5)

J, as a "super intellect with stunning brilliance"..... - Rini 05:48:06 02/27/04 (1)

It means she's been deceived on an audio purchase on Ebay - J 06:47:45 02/27/04 (0)

Re: ha ha ha - J 18:26:00 02/26/04 (2)

Re: ha ha ha - Don T 18:58:44 02/26/04 (1)

Re: ha ha ha - J 20:53:23 02/26/04 (0)

It all hinges on the term "like new".... - rp1@surfnetusa.com 14:33:05 02/26/04 (2)

Hi, this is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.......... - Sordidman 16:26:39 02/26/04 (1)

It doesn't make any difference. - Don T 17:57:57 02/26/04 (1)

So you do understand the language you just choose to be wrong. nt - tom1356 12:50:04 02/26/04 (2)

No I chose "no deception" and truth in advertising not fishing for uninformed buyers <nt> - Don T 12:56:46 02/26/04 (1)

I'm glad the people with enough disposable income to blow $5k on mid-fi amps have you on their side. - tom1356 13:07:06 02/26/04 (0)

Another way the ad is misleading... - Jim Austin 10:35:49 02/26/04 (1)

Re: Another way the ad is misleading... - Don T 11:00:53 02/26/04 (0)

Re: Thank you - osera 07:59:57 02/26/04 (0)

Rights and logic VS. Owner emotion - tnelson 07:39:01 02/26/04 (0)

Take 'Em To Court Ethan [nt] - Dr. Draz 07:16:52 02/26/04 (0)

Come on, spill it... - Jim Austin 06:11:21 02/26/04 (0)

I think the biggest issue here is..... - Redwing 05:32:40 02/26/04 (1)

Re: I think the biggest issue here is..... - middleground 10:55:55 02/26/04 (0)

Re: Not that there was ever a worry... - Jim Willis 03:41:07 02/26/04 (0)

Iâ€™m surprised there are actually people defending Cooper and Mcintosh - Caymus 23:09:48 02/25/04 (6)

And I'm surpised people are bashing Mac based on so little info. - Tromatic 00:25:49 02/26/04 (5)

Please list the "facts" that are in dispute.... (nt) - Sordidman 12:18:40 02/26/04 (3)

Re: Please list the "facts" that are in dispute.... (nt) - Tromatic 13:37:45 02/26/04 (2)

Well, for one thing... - rp1@surfnetusa.com 15:50:43 02/26/04 (0)

We Have The Actual Transcripts Of Mr. Cooper's Letters AND The Documented Fact That The Ad Was Pulled By eBay... - Dr. Draz 14:09:18 02/26/04 (0)

Re: Mcintosh wonâ€™t honor warranties like everyone else - Caymus 10:20:34 02/26/04 (0)

Do you feel the love? It makes me want to rush right out and buy McIntosh. - tnelson 21:43:09 02/25/04 (0)

Jeeez........ - photoguy 20:58:58 02/25/04 (6)

I agree - Ken Perkins 09:02:24 02/26/04 (3)

Re: I don't agree - Raiderman 13:34:36 02/26/04 (1)

Re: I don't agree - photoguy 18:06:00 02/26/04 (0)

Oh No....I Think The "Lack Of Sales" And Hassles Goes On The McIntosh Side On This One [nt] - Dr. Draz 09:13:44 02/26/04 (0)

Agree. What a whiner. Also want to add... - Markw* 06:34:38 02/26/04 (0)

Re: Jeeez........ - FLZapped 05:57:48 02/26/04 (0)

Post deletion started - Mei 20:54:13 02/25/04 (1)

Probably limiting AA liability in a pending libel suit brought by Mac. - Tromatic 00:58:21 02/26/04 (0)

Again for all thermal spazzes: I'll take your Mac gear, 1 cent on the buck. - Tromatic 19:58:19 02/25/04 (5)

Remind me to make sure you are not on the jury if I ever wind up in court - Ivan303 20:18:17 02/25/04 (4)

Re: Remind me to make sure you are not on the jury if I ever wind up in court - racerguy 05:51:50 02/26/04 (3)

Could be.... - Ivan303 06:20:04 02/26/04 (2)

Re: Could be.... - racerguy 15:55:18 02/26/04 (1)

You are correct.... - Ivan303 16:22:27 02/26/04 (0)

Modarators help! - Corbu 19:58:02 02/25/04 (1)

Mommmeeeeee - Mei 20:42:44 02/25/04 (0)

BOYCOTT OF McINTOSH EQUIPMENT - Raiderman 19:25:22 02/25/04 (3)

I agree - I will never buy an $8k Mac amp that I only plan to keep for 2 wks. (nt) - Gentry 19:45:16 02/25/04 (2)

LOL, good point! - rp1@surfnetusa.com 15:52:34 02/26/04 (0)

Me either! no way!! nt - Elizabeth 20:53:09 02/25/04 (0)

Re: Mcintosh lawyer harassing me - Part 2 - oddmanout 18:57:18 02/25/04 (1)

"Much ado about nothing" - Ivan303 19:11:53 02/25/04 (0)

Beating a dead horse! - eargasm666@yahoo.com 18:03:23 02/25/04 (1)

Huh? - Ivan303 18:10:15 02/25/04 (0)

Congratulations for publicising this event - theaudiohobby 18:01:44 02/25/04 (0)

Maybe...McIntosh - Mei 17:24:43 02/25/04 (0)

"Sellers like you, who would willingly conceal the facts about their products" Patently untrue, you did disclose fully! - Colin 17:07:00 02/25/04 (0)

is this interesting enough... - osera 16:46:17 02/25/04 (2)

No - this is a stupid thread and it should die a quick death - Mark B. James 17:11:22 02/25/04 (1)

Re: No - this is a stupid thread and it should die a quick death - Audioq 11:46:07 02/26/04 (0)

Re: Mcintosh lawyer harassing me - Part 2 - DaveV 15:49:59 02/25/04 (0)

50 years in business and they haven't learned a thing about audiophiles. - tom1356 15:30:42 02/25/04 (2)

Re: 50 years in business and they haven't learned a thing about audiophiles. - Rich_A 21:58:16 02/25/04 (1)

Re: 50 years in business and they haven't learned a thing about audiophiles. - tom1356 22:14:05 02/25/04 (0)

Hmmm - Ralph 15:12:16 02/25/04 (0)

Here is the Ebay ad - Ethannnn 14:21:41 02/25/04 (33)

You clearly are lying in your ad! - Don T 20:25:15 02/25/04 (17)

If the damn things were actually new, he would have described them as 'new', not 'like new'. - Methos 09:34:38 02/26/04 (5)

They are "used" not "like new" because if the were "like new" they would have a warranty! - Don T 10:18:03 02/26/04 (4)

Weak... - Charles Hansen 10:56:22 02/26/04 (0)

Ah, but his amp does have a warranty! - Methos 10:55:19 02/26/04 (2)

But the point is... - Redwing 17:16:20 02/26/04 (1)

I'm in agreement on both points. - Methos 19:53:48 02/26/04 (0)

Re: You clearly are lying in your ad! - middleground 05:17:11 02/26/04 (0)

Re: You clearly are lying in your ad! - Redwing 05:13:16 02/26/04 (0)

Be reasonable - Metralla 04:00:36 02/26/04 (0)

Give Me Rhythm or Give Me a BREAK! - bwhite 22:53:07 02/25/04 (4)

Amen! -nt - Raiderman 15:45:54 02/26/04 (0)

Re: Give Me Rhythm or Give Me a BREAK! - Don T 08:42:25 02/26/04 (0)

Bravo!...Couldn't Have Said It Better Myself [nt] - Dr. Draz 06:37:22 02/26/04 (1)

agreed <nt> - Don T 08:43:11 02/26/04 (0)

Re: You clearly are lying in your ad! -READ IT AGAIN!! - carbonman 20:44:52 02/25/04 (2)

Re: You clearly are lying in your ad! -READ IT AGAIN!! - Dokter-Doug 07:14:23 02/26/04 (1)

Good move, Herr Dokter!! - Methos 09:39:09 02/26/04 (0)

Boycott McIntosh! - Raiderman 19:44:04 02/25/04 (0)

There is no question you did not describe the amps as "not - audiogatorjim 17:21:04 02/25/04 (7)

Re: There is no question you did not describe the amps as "not - Ivan303 17:40:47 02/25/04 (6)

No, I am just saying that I bet there exist some bidders who - audiogatorjim 18:36:13 02/25/04 (5)

The Principle, The Principle My Friend... - Dr. Draz 06:42:05 02/26/04 (1)

In America, we have the right to choose our battles. I, for one - audiogatorjim 11:34:50 02/26/04 (1)

Re: No, I am just saying that I bet there exist some bidders who - Ivan303 19:17:57 02/25/04 (2)

Re: No, I am just saying that I bet there exist some bidders who - JimBop 20:08:20 02/25/04 (0)

Well...I think some buyers may think the warranty would still - audiogatorjim 19:37:45 02/25/04 (0)

Re: If that's it, sue 'em! - Matts 14:44:13 02/25/04 (0)

Re: Here is the Ebay ad - Brian Levy 14:43:35 02/25/04 (0)

Did the ad ever say 'never installed' anywhere in the text? nt - Methos 14:31:59 02/25/04 (0)

Re: Here is the Ebay ad - Ethannnn 14:30:21 02/25/04 (2)

Seems to me that the statement, "The manufacturer's warranty is non-transferable."... - Dalton 20:26:10 02/25/04 (0)

Ok, lawyerboy must be confused, then. :-) nt - Methos 14:33:11 02/25/04 (0)

DUILaywer and Lochrider were wrong.... - Charles Hansen 13:38:03 02/25/04 (13)

Re: DUILaywer and Lochrider were wrong.... - Brian Levy 13:44:59 02/25/04 (12)

Doesn't change my point one whit... - Charles Hansen 13:50:06 02/25/04 (11)

Not necessarily - PabloP 13:58:25 02/25/04 (10)

The "left hand -- right hand" problem - Bruce from DC 14:55:55 02/25/04 (8)

Sales Manager WANTS to close down internet sales.... - Ivan303 18:33:27 02/25/04 (6)

Re: Sales Manager WANTS to close down internet sales.... - Bruce from DC 08:00:14 02/26/04 (5)

Re: Sales Manager WANTS to close down internet sales.... - Dr. Draz 08:12:24 02/26/04 (4)

I guess I draw a different conclusion - Bruce from DC 11:35:57 02/26/04 (3)

Re: I guess I draw a different conclusion - Ivan303 20:03:27 02/26/04 (0)

Re: I guess I draw a different conclusion - Dr. Draz 12:04:12 02/26/04 (1)

Re: I guess I draw a different conclusion - Bruce from DC 15:49:54 02/26/04 (1)

I say, C2200/MC2102 combos for every poster, and then All is Forgiven! Are ya with me?? :-) nt - Methos 15:07:51 02/25/04 (0)

So It's Clear Then...Both Mr Cooper And McIntosh Are Ass Puppets - Jointly And Severally...Now I Get It [nt] - Dr. Draz 14:23:55 02/25/04 (0)

Re: Mcintosh lawyer harassing me - Part 2 - dude 13:14:01 02/25/04 (0)

Re: Mcintosh lawyer harassing me - Part 2 - middleground 13:13:29 02/25/04 (1)

Re: Mcintosh lawyer harassing me - Part 2 - Brian Levy 13:37:34 02/25/04 (0)

Re: Mcintosh lawyer harassing me - Part 2 - Brian Levy 12:54:36 02/25/04 (5)

3/4 - PabloP 13:31:05 02/25/04 (4)

Re: 3/4 - Brian Levy 13:49:08 02/25/04 (3)

Re: 3/4 - PabloP 14:00:50 02/25/04 (2)

Re: 3/4 - Brian Levy 14:25:45 02/25/04 (1)

Re: Don't be so naive.... - Matts 17:26:33 02/25/04 (0)

Re: Mcintosh lawyer harassing me - No Kidding- what a jerk! - Matts 12:53:57 02/25/04 (1)

Totally agreed, Mcintosh will be off from my shopping list forever. (nt) - Anfield 15:37:00 02/25/04 (0)

What I can't figure out is WHY............ - Chuck Y 12:51:32 02/25/04 (2)

Hmmm, I've Seen Something Similar Before... - Luminator 14:09:01 02/25/04 (0)

Re: What I can't figure out is WHY............ - Stephæn 13:03:07 02/25/04 (0)

Before I post my ad - Ethannnn 12:50:42 02/25/04 (11)

Re: Before I post my ad - uw312@aol.com 14:33:23 02/25/04 (2)

Re: who is stopping them?? - Matts 14:38:06 02/25/04 (1)

Re: who is stopping them?? - uw312@aol.com 14:48:36 02/25/04 (1)

"like new" search on ebay... - osera 13:11:43 02/25/04 (3)

Re: "like new" search on ebay... - Ethannnn 13:17:02 02/25/04 (2)

Re: "like new" search on ebay... - jwhite 13:34:38 02/25/04 (0)

Re: "like new" search on ebay... - Matts 13:30:07 02/25/04 (0)

Re: Before I post my ad - Brian Levy 13:04:23 02/25/04 (2)

Misinterpretation - Ethannnn 13:10:47 02/25/04 (1)

Post the ad - Brian Levy 13:27:12 02/25/04 (0)

Most folks here with knowledge of things legal......... - Chuck Y 12:55:19 02/25/04 (0)

i'm shocked... - jealouse 12:46:00 02/25/04 (0)

Don't forget to let us know when you get sued by Mac. - Tromatic 12:41:24 02/25/04 (0)

This is turning into the dumbest freakin'.. - marc-homeslice 12:36:01 02/25/04 (9)

"It sucks living in corporate "megopoly " America, don't it?!" - mikebake 13:46:00 02/25/04 (8)

Re: "It sucks living in corporate "megopoly " America, don't it?!" - kentaja@yahoo.com 14:06:13 02/25/04 (7)

Amen man.. - marc-homeslice 15:01:45 02/25/04 (1)

Re: Amen man.. - Mr. H 11:42:13 02/27/04 (0)

Re: "It sucks living in corporate "megopoly " America, don't it?!" - mikebake 14:56:23 02/25/04 (4)

Guess you didn't own any Enron or Worldcom stock.. - marc-homeslice 15:07:05 02/25/04 (1)

Re: Guess you didn't own any Enron or Worldcom stock.. - mikebake 15:11:23 02/25/04 (0)

Re: "It sucks living in corporate "megopoly " America, don't it?!" - kentaja@yahoo.com 15:05:18 02/25/04 (1)

Re: "It sucks living in corporate "megopoly " America, don't it?!" - mikebake 15:13:37 02/25/04 (0)

Re: "What I have kept secret until now is, I HAVE PROOF THAT SUBSTANTIATES MY CLAIM." - Jay 12:21:50 02/25/04 (4)

Ain't it odd? - Stephæn 12:49:12 02/25/04 (3)

Not sure how relevant this is but... - Ethannnn 12:52:56 02/25/04 (2)

Re: Not sure how relevant this is but... - Brian Levy 13:11:51 02/25/04 (0)

I think you pretty much gave him permission ... - Stephæn 12:57:08 02/25/04 (0)

The fallacy in the argument - Bruce from DC 12:18:07 02/25/04 (4)

Re: The fallacy in the argument - Jim Willis 03:34:55 02/26/04 (1)

Re: The answer, I think is at half.com - Matts 10:49:49 02/26/04 (0)

So Bruce are the statements made by Cooper consistent with the letter of the law? - NonA 12:21:56 02/25/04 (1)

Re: So Bruce are the statements made by Cooper consistent with the letter of the law? - Bruce from DC 12:49:47 02/25/04 (0)

Perhaps I ommitted one crucial point - ethannnn 12:17:56 02/25/04 (0)

Possible Hoax - TommyK 12:09:20 02/25/04 (13)

Got a call back from Mr. Cooper - TommyK 18:43:27 02/25/04 (1)

Re: He apparently did more than you say... - Matts 19:02:57 02/25/04 (0)

Did you check Martindale-Hubble? This guy could be licensed outside of NY.... - Chuck Y 13:06:03 02/25/04 (0)

I called Mr. Cooper, left message we shall - TommyK 12:54:26 02/25/04 (1)

You'll note that he's AV rated. - Mark B. James 13:47:38 02/25/04 (0)

Re: Possible Hoax - slope 12:34:55 02/25/04 (2)

I'm beginning to wonder, too ... - Stephæn 12:51:07 02/25/04 (1)

Yeah.. and a LAWYER who... - bwhite 23:20:33 02/25/04 (0)

McIntosh is owned by Clarion corp ... - bilbobaggins 12:28:34 02/25/04 (2)

McIntosh is NOT owned by Clarion corp ... - Vinyl Rules! 15:29:08 02/26/04 (1)

Re: McIntosh is NOT owned by Clarion corp ... - Dibble 02:41:21 02/27/04 (0)

The McGate Affair or the Wellesien "War of the Mcs"? - NonA 12:13:51 02/25/04 (1)

You might be on to - mikebake 12:13:19 02/25/04 (0)

Im no law expert, but you've met a manufact. that decided to enforce applicable laws... - NonA 12:09:17 02/25/04 (0)

Excellent, McIntosh admits their gear is "overpriced" - Mei 12:08:56 02/25/04 (0)

Well...maybe - Tom 12:08:11 02/25/04 (0)

My, my, Wayne Cooper is God! - Norm 12:04:45 02/25/04 (1)

LOL! (nt) - Charles Hansen 13:40:11 02/25/04 (0)

Well, it is typical..have a lawyer run your business.. - rick5 11:58:09 02/25/04 (3)

Mac does have a disclaimer at thier site.. - slope 12:02:42 02/25/04 (2)

Re: I LIKE that page! - Matts 13:49:01 02/25/04 (1)

Re: I LIKE that page! - slope 14:51:37 02/25/04 (1)

Re: Seems like Mr. Cooper's position is reasonable... - mkuller 11:52:38 02/25/04 (6)

It is NOT Mr. Coopers job to protect the public. Period. His argument does - mikebake 12:08:17 02/25/04 (0)

Ebay warranty policy.. - rick5 12:06:51 02/25/04 (0)

I think its the principal.... <nt> - bwhite 11:59:03 02/25/04 (3)

No, the principal is the one who whacks your ass with the paddle, for starting the cafeteria food fight.... <nt> - Methos 20:42:09 02/25/04 (2)

principle - bwhite 23:09:26 02/25/04 (1)

Hey, no problem...just doing my best 'school marm' impression! :-) nt - Methos 11:03:16 02/26/04 (0)

Follow Ups

The fallacy in the argument - Bruce from DC 12:18:07 02/25/04 (4)

Re: The fallacy in the argument - Jim Willis 03:34:55 02/26/04 (1)

Re: The answer, I think is at half.com - Matts 10:49:49 02/26/04 (0)

So Bruce are the statements made by Cooper consistent with the letter of the law? - NonA 12:21:56 02/25/04 (1)

Re: So Bruce are the statements made by Cooper consistent with the letter of the law? - Bruce from DC 12:49:47 02/25/04 (0)