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Propeller Head Plaza Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics. |
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Propeller Head Plaza Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics. |
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In Reply to: How Do We Have A Technical Conversation When We Have So Many Vocal Unrational Objectivists & Unrational Subjectivists? posted by thetubeguy1954 on March 29, 2007 at 11:08:36:
From your first paragraph:"To those of us who hold these beliefs know the reality is today's accepted audio measurements don't correlate sufficiently with what we hear!"
Here you start off with beliefs and broad generalizations. If you want a real technical discussion, get down to real details.
What are the 2 amps that measure the same but sound different? What measurements are the same? How do you know they sound different, what were the conditions?
Maybe with this kind of information, progress can be made. For example, perhaps they sound different when driving electrostatic speakers. Then maybe a different measurement needs to be made, using a highly reactive load. And maybe these measurements will not be identical after all.
Just a suggestion. Beliefs and generalizations just lead to endless arguments as far as I can see.
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Follow Ups Full ThreadTopic - How Do We Have A Technical Conversation When We Have So Many Vocal Unrational Objectivists & Unrational Subjectivists? - thetubeguy1954 11:08:36 03/29/07 (139)
- here is a starting point - tunenut 12:39:24 04/02/07 (0)
- I agree, so why do subjectivists even visit this asylum? If they didn't visit and post, nothing would be posted here. nt - Norm 14:56:57 03/31/07 (1)
- Do a woman's measurements tell you whether you'll like her after you meet her? - Richard BassNut Greene 09:58:33 03/31/07 (1)
- Re: Do a woman's measurements tell you whether you'll like her after you meet her? - kerr 13:32:05 03/31/07 (0)
- You can't without a babblefish - tomservo 09:54:55 03/31/07 (1)
- "This gives them a clear map of the known territory." But THE MAP IS NOT THE TERRITORY! - clarkjohnsen 10:20:48 03/31/07 (0)
- Personally, my favorite tweak is... - The Real Dick Hertz 08:56:16 03/31/07 (0)
- Okay - well let's look at your example for starters. - Presto 14:04:31 03/30/07 (5)
- I have a question for you - Russ57 09:45:07 03/31/07 (2)
- Re: I have a question for you - Presto 16:38:45 04/01/07 (1)
- My email is - Russ57 04:11:07 04/02/07 (0)
- Re: Okay - well let's look at your example for starters. - john curl 16:16:35 03/30/07 (1)
- But isn't this mostly true only for amps and preamps? - Russ57 07:31:52 03/31/07 (0)
- "Subjectivists who believe you can simply place a block of some type of wood..." What's belief got to do with it? - clarkjohnsen 10:01:36 03/30/07 (0)
- Re: Apparently you're not alone in your exasperation and skepticism - geoffkait 05:32:13 03/30/07 (15)
- Re: Apparently you're not alone in your exasperation and skepticism - Posy Rorer 17:33:14 03/30/07 (1)
- Peer reviewed does not mean correct, - Richard BassNut Greene 17:24:18 04/08/07 (0)
- Geoff I Am Skeptical... But - thetubeguy1954 07:31:20 03/30/07 (9)
- Re: Tubeguy, thanks for.. - geoffkait 08:56:30 03/30/07 (8)
- Put me down for... - kerr 09:35:15 03/30/07 (6)
- Re: Put me down for... - geoffkait 11:06:05 03/30/07 (0)
- "I have no intention of trying your products." Excuse me, but... - clarkjohnsen 09:53:31 03/30/07 (4)
- Soundmind!!!!!! - kerr 10:47:45 03/30/07 (3)
- Re: Soundmind!!!!!! - morricab 02:26:28 04/02/07 (0)
- I'll take the hip flask and the 78s... - robert young 14:12:53 03/31/07 (1)
- Re: I'll take the hip flask and the 78s... - kerr 07:44:48 04/01/07 (0)
- You're Welcome Geoff - thetubeguy1954 09:15:41 03/30/07 (0)
- Re: Peer reviewed, one assumes - KlausR. 06:49:09 03/30/07 (2)
- Re: Addendum - geoffkait 07:33:33 03/30/07 (0)
- Re: Klaus - thanks for biting. That is my point exactly! - geoffkait 07:13:37 03/30/07 (0)
- Re : I believe it's quite apparent that today's accepted audio measurements do NOT correlate with what we hear. - KlausR. 00:47:49 03/30/07 (46)
- Sorry But You're Wrong... - thetubeguy1954 07:18:33 03/30/07 (11)
- Re: today's measurements do NOT correlate with what we hear - KlausR. 00:06:18 03/31/07 (3)
- I think you're missing at least one key point Klaus - Jim Austin 05:07:09 03/31/07 (2)
- How do you obtain fMRI measurements of a speaker:-) - KlausR. 05:49:08 03/31/07 (1)
- I don't think we're disagreeing exactly - Jim Austin 06:58:16 03/31/07 (0)
- One of your problems is that you think about words and not about things. - Pat D 08:20:08 03/30/07 (6)
- Re: Knowledgeable - KlausR. 00:38:25 03/31/07 (0)
- Re: One of your problems is that you think about words and not about things. - thetubeguy1954 11:32:32 03/30/07 (4)
- I just noticed another variation in your terminology. - Pat D 18:40:41 03/31/07 (2)
- Re: I just noticed another variation in your terminology. - thetubeguy1954 08:51:32 04/01/07 (1)
- You still don't explain what measurements you mean. - Pat D 12:34:49 04/01/07 (0)
- Re: One of your problems is that you think about words and not about things. - Pat D 12:45:30 03/30/07 (0)
- And this is where, as a musician, I part company with audiophiles - kerr 04:47:46 03/30/07 (33)
- Re: And this is where, as a musician, I part company with audiophiles - morricab 02:42:59 04/02/07 (1)
- I Am The Nail! - kerr 16:43:23 04/03/07 (0)
- Re: Unfortunately, the recording is not accurate to the original event - KlausR. 06:33:49 03/30/07 (30)
- You have hit upon THE biggest issue and misunderstanding in all of audio - Analog Scott 19:30:15 03/31/07 (24)
- Re: You have hit upon THE biggest issue and misunderstanding in all of audio - KlausR. 04:03:33 04/01/07 (23)
- Re: You have hit upon THE biggest issue and misunderstanding in all of audio - Analog Scott 08:46:59 04/01/07 (22)
- So, your audio goal is exactly the same as Julian Hirsch's! - Pat D 12:52:45 04/01/07 (21)
- The article you linked is from 2001 - kerr 07:28:42 04/02/07 (1)
- Re: The article you linked is from 2001 - Pat D 10:43:42 04/02/07 (0)
- Re: So, your audio goal is exactly the same as Julian Hirsch's! - Analog Scott 13:14:57 04/01/07 (18)
- Analog Scott - thetubeguy1954 08:16:42 04/02/07 (14)
- Don't worry about me. - Analog Scott 18:11:54 04/02/07 (0)
- Tubey wants "fixed opinions!" - Pat D 12:05:07 04/02/07 (4)
- Pat D-Cake Wants To Parrot Others... - thetubeguy1954 14:17:41 04/02/07 (3)
- Omigod! Tubey thinks "accepted audio measurements" are manufacturers specs!! - Pat D 17:58:05 04/02/07 (2)
- Re: Omigod! Pat D-Cake Always Needs The Obvious To Be Explained To Him! - thetubeguy1954 12:11:24 04/03/07 (1)
- Tubey changes the ground rules! - Pat D 12:53:57 04/03/07 (0)
- What's a "Rationalist"? - kerr 09:02:19 04/02/07 (7)
- Re: What's a "Rationalist"? - thetubeguy1954 11:43:31 04/02/07 (6)
- Impossible. - Pat D 12:16:53 04/02/07 (5)
- Quite Possible & True! - thetubeguy1954 12:46:01 04/03/07 (4)
- Re: Quite Possible & True! - Pat D 20:47:53 04/03/07 (3)
- Re: Quite Possible & True! - thetubeguy1954 12:06:03 04/04/07 (2)
- You write a long post to try to avoid the obvious. - Pat D 21:59:29 04/04/07 (1)
- I Write A Long Post To Try To Explain Whats Obvious To Everyone Else To You!. - thetubeguy1954 08:42:15 04/05/07 (0)
- Re: So, your audio goal is exactly the same as Julian Hirsch's! - Pat D 14:25:01 04/01/07 (2)
- Re: So, your audio goal is exactly the same as Julian Hirsch's! - Analog Scott 14:41:41 04/01/07 (1)
- Re: So, your audio goal is exactly the same as Julian Hirsch's! - Pat D 19:20:49 04/01/07 (0)
- Well, you obviously see my conundrum :) - kerr 06:52:25 03/30/07 (4)
- Re: Such as? :) - KlausR. 07:45:25 03/30/07 (3)
- Re: Such as? :) - Jim Austin 05:20:01 03/31/07 (1)
- Fakes - KlausR. 22:41:09 03/31/07 (0)
- Addendum - KlausR. 08:44:41 03/30/07 (0)
- Is this a strawman? - Lynn 21:29:46 03/29/07 (1)
- I Don't Believe So... - thetubeguy1954 08:21:22 03/30/07 (0)
- Groundhog Day and the sound of one hand clapping furiously (nt) - AJinFLA 18:20:02 03/29/07 (0)
- I believe it's quite apparent that today's accepted audio measurements do NOT correlate with what we hear. - Robert Hamel 17:50:51 03/29/07 (4)
- Re: I believe it's quite apparent that today's accepted audio measurements do NOT correlate with what we hear. - thetubeguy1954 10:17:41 03/30/07 (3)
- Re: I believe it's quite apparent that today's accepted audio measurements do NOT correlate with what we hear. - May Belt 10:58:07 03/30/07 (2)
- Caca tweak, Virgin piss... - Wellfed 11:27:28 03/31/07 (1)
- Re: Caca tweak, Virgin piss... - john curl 21:36:24 03/31/07 (0)
- Well, the Posting Rules at the Asylum are a good place to start. - Pat D 17:15:01 03/29/07 (10)
- You Mean Like Agreeing & Later Disagreeing With The Same Statement Like You Do Pat? - thetubeguy1954 09:35:52 03/30/07 (9)
- So you actually respond to nothing in my thoughtful post. - Pat D 11:50:58 03/30/07 (8)
- Re: So you actually respond to nothing in my thoughtful post. - thetubeguy1954 13:24:15 03/30/07 (7)
- You certainly carry a lot of baggage! - Pat D 21:34:20 03/30/07 (6)
- Yeah You're Correct My Baggage Is Called Having To Talk With Pat D! Trust Me It's A Burden I could Do Without... - thetubeguy1954 11:31:17 04/02/07 (5)
- You give me an bad nickname, so I gave you a nice one, O Tubed One. - Pat D 13:20:15 04/02/07 (4)
- Good Or Bad Nickname? - thetubeguy1954 06:21:42 04/04/07 (3)
- Pardon me, but you're the one worrying about nicknames. Link supplied. I pointed out your name-calling. - Pat D 00:00:09 04/05/07 (2)
- Pardon me, But You're Distorting The Truth Once Again. - thetubeguy1954 10:37:33 04/05/07 (1)
- When you get some experience - Pat D 14:38:26 04/05/07 (0)
- When you post things like - clifff 13:52:55 03/29/07 (1)
- Re: When you post things like - thetubeguy1954 14:09:03 03/29/07 (0)
- Guess we can't... - rick_m 12:22:29 03/29/07 (3)
- Re: Guess we can't... - thetubeguy1954 14:08:00 03/29/07 (2)
- Re: Guess we can't... - rick_m 09:42:15 03/30/07 (0)
- The secret lies... - Wellfed 21:14:06 03/29/07 (1)
- Re: How Do We Have A Technical Conversation When We Have So Many Vocal Unrational Objectivists & Unrational Subjectivist - kerr 12:18:01 03/29/07 (36)
- Re: How Do We Have A Technical Conversation When We Have So Many Vocal Unrational Objectivists & Unrational Subjectivist - thetubeguy1954 14:28:34 03/29/07 (34)
- Perhaps it's just that the two sides need to see the merit in each other - kerr 17:51:41 03/29/07 (1)
- Sometimes Someone Is Just Incorrect... - thetubeguy1954 11:28:03 03/30/07 (0)
- BTW, UNrational does not exist - IRRational is the word you are looking for. - clifff 14:43:15 03/29/07 (4)
- That's hysterical! - robert young 19:33:49 03/29/07 (3)
- All This Is From A Guy Who Claims He Doesn't Read My Posts Anymore - thetubeguy1954 14:18:29 03/30/07 (1)
- It was in the title - didn't need to read the post. nt - clifff 14:51:31 03/30/07 (0)
- It shows the depths to which some descend in their depravity. (How's my spelling?) nt - clarkjohnsen 09:45:42 03/30/07 (0)
- I happen not to agree with Peter - it is your labelling his opinion "religeous dogma" which is infantile. nt - clifff 14:35:31 03/29/07 (26)
- I'm Clifff I Don't Like What The Tubeguy Says WAAAAA - thetubeguy1954 14:27:22 03/30/07 (25)
- Yes, I know your defective education was not your fault, but your very bad manners certainly are. nt - clifff 14:55:15 03/30/07 (24)
- Re: Yes, I know your defective education was not your fault, but your very bad manners certainly are. nt - thetubeguy1954 09:07:28 04/01/07 (23)
- Subjectivists vs Objectivists, For Me The Battle Is Over! - At least I don't lie tubeguy - AJinFLA 13:26:16 04/01/07 (22)
- Are You Really This Ignorant? - thetubeguy1954 11:56:40 04/02/07 (12)
- Oh, I see. You weren't lying about the "Battle" being over. You simply changed your mind. Right. Gotcha :-) nt - AJinFLA 18:25:18 04/02/07 (11)
- No Stupid The Post Wasn't About Obj vs Subj It Was About Irrational People From Both... (nt) - thetubeguy1954 06:05:09 04/04/07 (1)
- It's not over. As predicted. Put yourself on your own "Liars List" now (nt) - AJinFLA 14:43:54 04/04/07 (0)
- He means he killed you but you won't stay dead! :) - kerr 09:08:16 04/03/07 (8)
- Re: He means he killed you but you won't stay dead! :) - AJinFLA 18:29:21 04/03/07 (7)
- Re: He means he killed you but you won't stay dead! :) - kerr 04:46:37 04/04/07 (6)
- Re: He means he killed you but you won't stay dead! :) - AJinFLA 16:37:03 04/04/07 (5)
- Re: He means he killed you but you won't stay dead! :) - kerr 04:47:36 04/05/07 (4)
- I Have No Desire To Kill Polly --- I Want To Make Some Speakers! - thetubeguy1954 12:19:15 04/06/07 (2)
- OMG this is hysterical. YOU are going to ditch the computer speakers and DIY a dipole! Mr. Anti-measurement, copious eq - AJinFLA 05:37:47 04/07/07 (1)
- More Stupidity From POLLYinFLA - thetubeguy1954 10:16:04 04/09/07 (0)
- Re: He means he killed you but you won't stay dead! :) - AJinFLA 19:07:13 04/05/07 (0)
- Re: Subjectivists vs Objectivists, For Me The Battle Is Over! - At least I don't lie tubeguy - Pat D 20:01:40 04/01/07 (8)
- I Wanted To Be Like You Pat & Change My Mind (nt) - thetubeguy1954 11:46:53 04/02/07 (7)
- Yet you complain when others change theirs. - Pat D 13:24:49 04/02/07 (6)
- What's Good For The Goose Pat D-Cake.... (nt) - thetubeguy1954 06:01:37 04/04/07 (1)
- Actually, I keep hoping you will change your mind for the better on a number of matters. - Pat D 11:50:38 04/04/07 (0)
- Nah. He just complains. Period. (nt) - AJinFLA 18:32:13 04/02/07 (3)
- Not Complaining, Just Explaining How Wrong You Are Polly... (nt) - thetubeguy1954 06:02:37 04/04/07 (2)
- Quit whining (nt) - AJinFLA 03:44:21 04/05/07 (1)
- Quit Parroting Putrid POVs (nt) - thetubeguy1954 06:59:17 04/06/07 (0)
- Re: How Do We Have A Technical Conversation When We Have So Many Vocal Unrational Objectivists & Unrational Subjectivist - Tre' 13:56:03 03/29/07 (0)
Follow Ups
- here is a starting point - tunenut 12:39:24 04/02/07 (0)
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