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Propeller Head Plaza Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics. |
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Propeller Head Plaza Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics. |
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In Reply to: Re: Quite Possible & True! posted by Pat D on April 3, 2007 at 20:47:53:
TG1954 - ANY component whos sound I speak about is always when used in a system. I realize that NO audio component works by itself, apparently you need that explained to you.Pat D-Cake - No, I don't need that explained to me. Why don't you modify your language to take account of that? Instead, you claim your tube amplifier is "world class" and concretely you take a suggestion it might not work so well with some other speakers as a dastardly slur upon it.
TG1954 - Apparently you DO need that explained to you Pat D-Cake. Otherwise you wouldn't require modifing my language to take account of that, when it's just an obvious fact! You're 100% correct that I know that my amp is "WORLD-CLASS". However your comment that I concretely take the suggestion that it might not work so well with some other speakers as a dastardly slur upon it, is something you simply made up and cannot provide any evidence I've ever said anything like that. Even if it wasn't an SET that fact that it only has 40W/ch would surely reveal to anyone with a real knowledge about audio equipment that the Mastersound will not work with all speakers. Surely you realize Pat D-Cake that any system is only as good as it weakest link. The Mastersound used with the right ancillary components is a "WORLD-CLASS" amp. A QSC on the other hand no matter how good the other components are would never sound like a "WORLD-CLASS" amp! So even though both are used in a system, one can determine how good the individual components are, or haven't you developed that skill as of yet?
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Pat D-Cake - You even want to define the amplifier's accuracy by how well it sounds in your system! This deprives the concept of accuracy of any definite meaning, since your tube amp may not so good with other speakers.TG1954 - Once you learn how to deteremine the sound of individual components in the confines of a system you'll see the problem with your statement.
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TG1954 - Specifications are USUALLY a result of a measurement being taken when speaking about audio specifications."Pat D-Cake They may or may not be related to measurements. In any case, they are not the same as measurements as a spec is a performance standard. For example, a distortion spec of .15% states that the distortion under specified conditions will not exceed that, and those conditions are regulated for US advertising. It is quite possible the amp will do better than that. As well, in the US, if an amplifier is claimed to be able to put out X watts continuous power over a frequency range of A-B into a load impedence of Y then it is supposed to be able to do that. Unlike THD, this can often be of some use.
TG1954 - I addressed this yesterday Pat D-Cake, I mentioned there are other types of specs, granted I didn't list everyone, but I proved I knew others existed. I've already told you that specifications are USUALLY (that means not always -- so I don't see why you're pointing out the obvious) a result of a measurement being taken when speaking about audio specifications. But because there are different types of specifications and you need the obvious explained over & over I say USUALLY because there's also some others like:
a) Maintenance Specifications.
b) Materials Specifications.
c) Operation Specifications.
d) Design Specifications.If we take your example of: a distortion spec of .15% states that the distortion under specified conditions will not exceed that, while true can also be viewed as a measurement spec as well. Remember I stated: "a measurement is the estimation of a quantity such as distortion, length, excursion, temperature, time etc. Measurements find the ratio of some quantity to a standard quantity of the same type..." thus in your example a measurement of the distortion of an amplifier is the ratio of the actual distortion of the amplifier to a standard of 0% distortion. Measurements are usually given in terms of a real number times a unit of measurement, for example .15%. In this case the .15% distortion is the specification the measurement provided. So it can be both a measurement spec and a performance spec.
This is just you once again attempting to shift the topic from what it is to what you want it to be in an effort to appear correct at all costs!
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Pat D-Cake - Now, speaker specs often seem not to be based on measurements. A speaker may be said to have a frequency response extending to, say, 30 Hz, but there is no guarantee it will actually have any useful response that low. Now, there are some manufacturers whose LF extension specs seem honest as they come out close to what the measurements done by the NRC (Soundstage), Stereophile, or AIG indicate, but others do not. Sensitivity is another spec--but there is really no standard way of measuring it to which they must adhere, and as well, some manufacturers grossly exaggerate it. Adn unless it is extremely tight, an FR spec really doesn't indicate much about how a speaker will sound.TG1954 - As usual we disagree. Here's just one spec of a speaker...
Frequency Response: 15-35 kHz, +/- 2 dB, 13 Hz-100 kHz -6 dB, (+/- 1dB at mid band). To me this is a measurement Pat D-Cake. It measures against DC to whatever upper limit one choices to use. Just because there's no standard accepted measurement for this doesn't mean it isn't a measurement. This also serves to fortify my postion that today's ACCEPTED measurements don't correlate with what we hear, because there is no accpted standard in many cases, this cases the measurements and the specification they provide to be useless to us! Personally I think speakers should be measured against 0 - 100Khz. It also measures the deviation from flat frequency response +/- 2 dB when 15-35Khz is the standard and -6 dB when 13-100Khz is the standard. I agree with you that a (not an) FR spec really doesn't indicate much about how a speaker will sound. But that just further illuminates my statement as being true.
Thetubeguy1954
"If you thought that science was certain - well, that is just an error on your part." Richard Feynman theoretical physicist, 1918-1988
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Follow Ups
- Re: Quite Possible & True! - thetubeguy1954 12:06:03 04/04/07 (2)
- You write a long post to try to avoid the obvious. - Pat D 21:59:29 04/04/07 (1)
- I Write A Long Post To Try To Explain Whats Obvious To Everyone Else To You!. - thetubeguy1954 08:42:15 04/05/07 (0)
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