In Reply to: Re: Ok, so can you explain how these thermal effects might manifest themselves? posted by john curl on August 24, 2003 at 15:37:42:
""Oh sure, and when we change the cable to something else, the effects disappear. How does that happen?""JCHmmmm...let's start with seebeck/peltier....If you look back at the work function coefficients, you will see that some metals have damn near the same numbers...copper, gold, and silver, for example..So cables using only those would have much less effect, than say tin, aluminum, nickel.. So, for Seebeck/peltier...you have to consider all the path interfaces.
Or, let's consider ground loop/shield resistance ratio..If the shield resistance is high, it will present a higher portion of loop intercept across the cable length, vs across the equipment ground..
""For the record, I have two different reference cables that don't significantly distort in my test. They are made by two different companies, and have two different metal compositions. They only share the fact that teflon is used as the insulator.""JC
For dielectric questions, I would defer to you and others, as I've not considered or worked with those issues..But, as I recall, I asked you if you had correlated the cable composition with the results...And your response was "I don't care what's causing it". And if you look at the work functions of the metals involved, you will see how some combinations of materials can look rather identical.
""Almost all other cables have specific higher order harmonics at low levels. Why? All I know, is that the test is repeatable with each specific cable, good or bad.""JC
And again...I have considered the fact that you have seen repeatable, cable specific differences in my thinking on the possible effects responsible.
""Thermoelectric effects? Please show me how.""JC
That is, of course, my intent to prove..it will either show yes or no..
But, having just a "tad" of experience at testing for things I would never have considered before, I refuse to be as glib as you when it comes to science and physics.
I will propose only scenario's and effects that can be tested for. Not hogwash..
We seem to differ in that respect.
Cheers, John
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Follow Ups
- Re: Ok, so can you explain how these thermal effects might manifest themselves? - jneutron 07:59:53 08/25/03 (24)
- Can you stop arguing with JC and describe what you think might be happening? - Commuteman 09:09:25 08/25/03 (8)
- Who's arguing? I'm being bashed for trying to explain. - jneutron 11:21:13 08/25/03 (7)
- Are you sure you can use this Seebeck/Peltier cause and effect model? - Commuteman 12:18:56 08/25/03 (6)
- I forgot to add.. - jneutron 17:20:41 08/25/03 (0)
- I'll stick to this thread. - jneutron 12:31:19 08/25/03 (4)
- Can we get to some ballpark numbers to see if it's significant? - Commuteman 13:41:47 08/25/03 (3)
- You're killin me... - jneutron 15:56:18 08/25/03 (2)
- I think we're using the same numbers.. - Commuteman 17:28:12 08/25/03 (1)
- AHA!!!!! So that's where the error is... - jneutron 17:46:53 08/25/03 (0)
- Re: Ok, so can you explain how these thermal effects might manifest themselves? - john curl 08:50:17 08/25/03 (14)
- JC..you really have to read the posts.... - jneutron 10:29:16 08/25/03 (13)
- Re: JC..you really have to read the posts.... - john curl 13:36:44 08/25/03 (10)
- Hi John - jneutron 15:21:15 08/25/03 (9)
- Re: Hi John - john curl 16:47:15 08/25/03 (8)
- Re: Hi John - jneutron 17:04:43 08/25/03 (7)
- Re: Hi John - john curl 20:16:24 08/25/03 (6)
- Re: Hi John - jneutron 21:34:29 08/25/03 (5)
- And BTW..You never did say who Dr. Van den Hul was.. - jneutron 21:48:10 08/25/03 (4)
- Everyone is entitled to their opinion.... - Charles Hansen 22:03:03 08/25/03 (3)
- Hmmm. - jneutron 05:41:31 08/26/03 (0)
- Hellllooo Charles... - jneutron 03:45:13 08/26/03 (1)
- OH, and Charles..... - jneutron 04:55:27 08/26/03 (0)
- Peltier effects are reversible with current direction - Commuteman 11:43:41 08/25/03 (1)
- AHA..gotcha - jneutron 11:58:44 08/25/03 (0)