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Education and growth

>No, you have that backwards. It is the wire directionality folks who are of religion.

They at least are going on experience, you are guessing and projecting in the abstract based on a static worldview.

Sounds like "Gimme that Old Time Religion" to me!


>>My scientific attitude should be quite obvious.

Your scientific pretensions you mean. You have not done exhaustive research in any way, practical or literature based. Science is not only applying published research to cases while sitting in your bedroom thinking about it, even if one has read widely.

Theory building and testing is a far more interactive and complex process. It must start with ground-up experiments not published papers. Most science is working from particular cases to hypothetical general statements. You cut that part out entirely.

A study of listening effects of wire directionality should start with listening for this effect, no? First you must investigate and then see whether there is any evidence or not. I gave you the chance to audition some AudioNote silver litz on loan and you weaseled out on the opportunity to possibly confront your untested assumptions.

This is not the attitude of somebody who wants to learn and do science. This is entrenchment in a professional society mentality bunker.

I am not sure about your understanding of the theoretical basis of scientific inquiry, which is why I asked if you have any actual education in this area?

No, right? That's fair because few people, including EEs, have.

You likely learned what I learned in high school physics, Logical Positivism, aka lcgical empiricism, aka lab methods, probably without going into any of the serious deficiencies of the paradigm. Read up on Vienna Circle Positivism and see if it sounds familiar. It will.

And note that the Positvists say that there is no knowledge without EXPERIENCE.

Then read the critiques and waffling on this position since the 1930s when the last holdouts of the strong statement were thrown into exile by the War. Relativity and quantum mechanics dealt this a death blow decades before that. They relied heavily on the early Logic work of Wittgenstein, well after he repudiated much of its import by shifting to a more cultural basis for knowledge. Look it up. Read about it. Learn what it is.

Nowadays, this classical Positivist position is primarily of historical interest in Philosophy class, because it has been largely superseded by theories that match reality and the actual enterprise of scientific investigation much more closely.

I will say that it works reasonably well to structure and get work done in most electronics labs, because that is a simple practical scenario, but it is not the final word on science.

You may be an engineer and good at what you do, but your logical methods and approaches are questionable and I don't think you have thought them through or even know exactly what they are and what the implications are.

This is not a personal attack on you, Gusser, it is an institutional and societal critique.

I would say that you have a "technical attitude," not a scientific attitude, although you might like science. And there is nothing intrinsically wrong with a technical attitude unless you are stretching beyond the limits of what this perspective can let you know and do with any reliable validity.


>I want to see credible evidence that wire has directionality in audio >and video circuits. Beyond that I don't even see any evidence it is a >factor in any area of electronics.

We are not on a video forum. I hardly even watch TV.

Have you really looked for evidence?

Know how many EEs listened and heard differences and accept them, in lieu of scientific explanation?

The smart, inquisitive ones anyway. The actual scientists. Those who want to learn.

My friend John Camille thought this was all complete nonsense, then he listened and heard a wire difference, Until he died, he was "beefing up" and tweaking spectrum analyzers to try to measure what he heard. Camille was one of the best engineers I ever knew and a dedicated, super hardcore investigator. He would experiment a lot then read a paper or two, maybe. I miss that guy.

Remember there is "knowing that" and then there is "knowing how." If you had to read a journal article to verify everything you do in day to day life, you would still be getting dressed for lunch in 1974.

You have no background, are not doing any focused research or testing of any kind, and you are waiting for an definitive article on a precise topic article to show up in one of your subscribed journals that is never going to appear in that journal.

You are right, you are not qualified to speak on the issue.

If I were seriously interested, I would read as much about the wider science of electronic materials research as I could get my hands on and see if there is anything in that corpus that might shed some light on the question. You might have to make studied inferences and careful correlations but there might be something out there of potential relevance.

This is what researchers do. You look at similar or potentially relevant studies to see if any findings possibly extend to the question you are investigating, then incorporate those ideas into your project for further evaluation.

You won't find anything that exactly answers this query definitely and for all time in an Intro to AC and DC Circuits textbook or Journal of the SMPTE, most likely. There is work to be done!

Belden, a sober wire manufacturer, sells oxygen free "audio grade" wire...why do they make that? It is just wire, right? Call them up and ask.

Call George Cardas, a practicing wire maker who owns a factory if he can point you to any measurable effects from extrusion on grain structure of wire. He might know about something you don't. There is no question that annealing processes mess with grain structure. Maybe he can tell you something about that since he works with the industry all of the time. Sure he has vested interests but he seems like a smart guy who would be open to sharing what he knows on these questions.

I'm not here to duke it out with staunch curmudgeons, I'm advocating continuing education and exploration of our world, including how science and human research work so that we can employ these tools more usefully.

Much of the received wisdom and the stale attitudes surrounding us are impediments to understanding and development of our audio universes.

So far, I'd have to score it on research and investigation:
Mapleshade 1, Gusser 0.





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Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must remain silent -- Wittgenstein

Free your mind and your ass will follow -- Parliament/Funkadelic

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