I was having a discussion with an engineer colleague of mine and we were discussing negative feedback. He said that it should work just fine but only if the load was ideal (ie. a perfect resistor). He thought that because a speaker is always somewhat reactive that some (or a lot depending on the speaker) of the energy put into the speaker finds its way back to the output of the amplifier.I asked him then where does that energy go, is it dissipated as heat or is it sent back through the feedback loop. He replied that both things occur and he felt that one of the biggest negative side effects of negative feedback was this back EMF being sent back to the input of the amp and reamplified, now way out of phase with the rest of the feedback signal. One might also argue that enough time has passed that this signal now being put back into amplifier bears no resemblance at all to the signal that is being amplified at that instance.
It seems to me that what you have then is a situation where the error correction is in fact introducing more error and this gets perpetuated indefinitely. My engineer friend felt that this is one of the major reasons that amps with high negative feedback often sound constricted with squashed macro dynamics and poor low level resolution as the signal is being smeared by this now error inducing feedback.
Based on a logical flow of the signal and the fact that music is mostly not steady state these arguments make sense and seem to fit well with my listening "observations".
Please comment.
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Topic - What happens to back EMF with a feedback amplifier? - morricab 05:01:34 08/17/06 (121)
- Here's what happens... - Al Sekela 15:56:29 08/19/06 (2)
- Re: Here's what happens... - tomservo 20:49:04 08/19/06 (1)
- Attempting to be concise, I left out - Al Sekela 15:37:27 08/20/06 (0)
- Boy, You Opened Up a Can of Worms.... [-; - Todd Krieger 00:04:20 08/19/06 (7)
- Re: Boy, You Opened Up a Can of Worms.... [-; - tomservo 09:33:19 08/19/06 (2)
- Re: Boy, You Opened Up a Can of Worms.... [-; - Todd Krieger 00:20:40 08/20/06 (0)
- Re: Boy, You Opened Up a Can of Worms.... [-; - morricab 10:44:05 08/19/06 (0)
- Re: Boy, You Opened Up a Can of Worms.... [-; - john curl 02:02:20 08/19/06 (3)
- Whacked By Friendly Fire..... - Todd Krieger 00:06:13 08/20/06 (2)
- Re: Whacked By Friendly Fire..... - john curl 00:27:23 08/20/06 (1)
- Not To Worry..... - Todd Krieger 00:51:29 08/20/06 (0)
- So try this and see what happens - tomservo 13:29:32 08/18/06 (25)
- That's only two quadrants. - jneutron 10:20:49 08/21/06 (0)
- If you try this, you'll see what happens... - Jacques 17:10:57 08/18/06 (23)
- Missed a variable or two.... - Jon Risch 21:03:44 08/18/06 (22)
- Set of agreements and disagreements - Jacques 04:25:49 08/19/06 (21)
- At least two more things - Jon Risch 16:27:57 08/20/06 (20)
- and again - Jacques 09:22:08 08/21/06 (19)
- Re: and again - Jon Risch 20:58:31 08/22/06 (18)
- Re: and again - jneutron 06:34:38 08/23/06 (17)
- Nope. - Jon Risch 21:13:52 08/23/06 (7)
- silly response. but, consistent.. - jneutron 07:46:49 08/24/06 (6)
- Sad - Jon Risch 21:26:52 08/24/06 (2)
- Again, you with your "look it's halleys comet" routine. - jneutron 08:35:12 09/05/06 (0)
- Re: Sad - jneutron 06:19:38 09/05/06 (0)
- Re: silly response. but, consistent.. - john curl 13:16:17 08/24/06 (2)
- Re: silly response. but, consistent.. - jneutron 13:37:01 08/24/06 (1)
- Re: silly response. but, consistent.. - john curl 14:50:32 08/24/06 (0)
- Re: and again - john curl 10:13:49 08/23/06 (8)
- Hey JC..what is " vector stimulus on the VI space."..do you know? - jneutron 10:45:28 08/23/06 (6)
- Re: Hey JC..what is " vector stimulus on the VI space."..do you know? - john curl 12:06:45 08/23/06 (5)
- Re: Hey JC..what is " vector stimulus on the VI space."..do you know? - jneutron 12:57:11 08/23/06 (4)
- Re: Hey JC..what is " vector stimulus on the VI space."..do you know? - john curl 16:35:29 08/23/06 (3)
- Re: Hey JC..what is " vector stimulus on the VI space."..do you know? - jneutron 05:46:25 08/24/06 (2)
- Re: Hey JC..what is " vector stimulus on the VI space."..do you know? - john curl 15:33:15 08/24/06 (1)
- another jc post..fluff and nuttin else. - jneutron 07:06:55 09/05/06 (0)
- Re: and again - jneutron 10:42:17 08/23/06 (0)
- kind of a long answer - tomservo 11:02:34 08/17/06 (4)
- Re: kind of a long answer - morricab 12:39:51 08/17/06 (2)
- Re: kind of a long answer - tomservo 13:26:15 08/17/06 (1)
- Re: kind of a long answer - morricab 02:13:05 08/18/06 (0)
- Thanks for the long answer. nt - Norm 11:39:06 08/17/06 (0)
- Re: What happens to back EMF with a feedback amplifier? - john curl 09:29:02 08/17/06 (12)
- Re: What happens to back EMF with a feedback amplifier? - morricab 09:48:21 08/17/06 (11)
- Re: What happens to back EMF with a feedback amplifier? - john curl 10:48:06 08/17/06 (10)
- Re: What happens to back EMF with a feedback amplifier? - morricab 05:36:57 08/18/06 (9)
- Re: What happens to back EMF with a feedback amplifier? - andy_c 11:01:19 08/18/06 (8)
- Re: What happens to back EMF with a feedback amplifier? - morricab 11:43:06 08/18/06 (5)
- Re: What happens to back EMF with a feedback amplifier? - andy_c 18:30:29 08/18/06 (4)
- It is not possible to have a technical discussion with someone who has no technical knowledge... - Soundmind 08:16:14 08/19/06 (3)
- Re: It is not possible to have a technical discussion with someone who has no technical knowledge... - morricab 09:50:16 08/19/06 (2)
- Once again - Dan Banquer 11:03:44 08/19/06 (1)
- Re: Once again - morricab 02:48:43 08/21/06 (0)
- Re: What happens to back EMF with a feedback amplifier? - morricab 11:15:51 08/18/06 (1)
- Re: What happens to back EMF with a feedback amplifier? - john curl 11:35:15 08/18/06 (0)
- Re: What happens to back EMF with a feedback amplifier? - Soundmind 08:04:51 08/17/06 (58)
- Re: What happens to back EMF with a feedback amplifier? - Dan Banquer 06:08:23 08/19/06 (3)
- Re: What happens to back EMF with a feedback amplifier? - Soundmind 11:51:16 08/19/06 (2)
- Re: What happens to back EMF with a feedback amplifier? - Dan Banquer 05:48:17 08/20/06 (1)
- Re: What happens to back EMF with a feedback amplifier? - Soundmind 08:20:36 08/20/06 (0)
- Re: What happens to back EMF with a feedback amplifier? - morricab 09:45:44 08/17/06 (49)
- Now I see it was just a troll. - clifff 13:31:28 08/17/06 (12)
- Re: Now I see it was just a troll. - morricab 14:43:14 08/17/06 (10)
- All of it. You are not listening. nt - clifff 01:06:56 08/18/06 (8)
- Re: All of it. You are not listening. nt - morricab 02:10:46 08/18/06 (7)
- Morricab....you are not listening. - Soundmind 15:22:07 08/18/06 (0)
- Your claims/responses here and elsewhere. - clifff 03:59:57 08/18/06 (5)
- Re: Your claims/responses here and elsewhere. - morricab 05:16:34 08/18/06 (4)
- You give the sneering man far more than he deserves, but bless you anyway. nt - clarkjohnsen 07:29:49 08/18/06 (3)
- Re: You give the sneering man far more than he deserves, but bless you anyway. nt - morricab 11:43:58 08/18/06 (2)
- I know how you do a snarl (grrrrrrrrr...) but how do you do a sneer? nt - clarkjohnsen 12:35:07 08/18/06 (1)
- Based on your postings clark it seems to me your face must be permanently deformed into a sneer - Soundmind 08:13:06 08/19/06 (0)
- If it talks like a troll, walks like a troll, and looks like a troll............ - Dan Banquer 17:13:22 08/17/06 (0)
- Your Owns Words Coming Back To Haunt You Cliff? - thetubeguy1954 14:00:25 08/17/06 (0)
- You are dead wrong....as usual - Soundmind 10:22:48 08/17/06 (35)
- Re: You are dead wrong....as usual - morricab 13:10:35 08/17/06 (30)
- Re: You are dead wrong....again& again & again - Dan Banquer 18:25:05 08/17/06 (21)
- Re: You are dead wrong....again& again & again - morricab 05:32:51 08/18/06 (20)
- Re: You are dead wrong....again& again & again - Dan Banquer 07:22:03 08/18/06 (19)
- Re: You are dead wrong....again& again & again - morricab 08:28:02 08/18/06 (18)
- Once again Troll - Dan Banquer 08:57:48 08/18/06 (17)
- Re: Once again Troll - morricab 11:26:14 08/18/06 (1)
- Re: Once again Troll - Dan Banquer 12:58:57 08/18/06 (0)
- Re: Once again Troll - john curl 09:25:55 08/18/06 (0)
- Re: Once again Troll - john curl 09:21:06 08/18/06 (10)
- Re: Once again Troll - Soundmind 09:50:50 08/18/06 (0)
- DUH! - Dan Banquer 09:36:20 08/18/06 (8)
- Re: DUH! - john curl 09:50:37 08/18/06 (7)
- Re: DUH! - Dan Banquer 10:28:49 08/18/06 (6)
- Re: DUH! - morricab 11:45:14 08/18/06 (5)
- Well, it does put perspective into his frame of reference - E-Stat 15:11:00 08/18/06 (2)
- Re: Well, it does put perspective into his frame of reference - AJinFLA 17:15:47 08/18/06 (1)
- Not at all - E-Stat 17:26:17 08/18/06 (0)
- Re: DUH! - Dan Banquer 12:57:04 08/18/06 (1)
- Re: DUH! - morricab 16:56:02 08/18/06 (0)
- And Furthermore troll - Dan Banquer 09:18:15 08/18/06 (2)
- Re: And Furthermore troll - morricab 11:14:10 08/18/06 (1)
- Someone has to be the head of the meritocracy... - Wellfed 11:21:17 08/18/06 (0)
- If you want to understand what negative feedback is really about....read a text, solve the equations - Soundmind 13:37:27 08/17/06 (7)
- See my post to Dan above, you are wrong . - morricab 05:34:08 08/18/06 (1)
- Still trolling I see - Dan Banquer 07:34:55 08/18/06 (1)
- Re: If you want to understand what negative feedback is really about....read a text, solve the equations - john curl 15:01:24 08/17/06 (3)
- Re: If you want to understand what negative feedback is really about....read a text, solve the equations - clifff 01:08:31 08/18/06 (2)
- Re: If you want to understand what negative feedback is really about....read a text, solve the equations - Soundmind 04:44:33 08/18/06 (1)
- Answer - E-Stat 15:34:22 08/18/06 (0)
- Re: If you want to understand what negative feedback is really about....read a text, solve the equations - morricab 14:07:00 08/17/06 (0)
- Damping factor - Dan Banquer 11:50:47 08/17/06 (3)
- Re: Damping factor - morricab 12:56:31 08/17/06 (2)
- Idiot Child Strikes Again - Dan Banquer 13:12:05 08/17/06 (1)
- Pot calling the kettle black - morricab 14:39:05 08/17/06 (0)
- Re: What happens to back EMF with a feedback amplifier? - Dan Banquer 08:23:32 08/17/06 (3)
- Re: What happens to back EMF with a feedback amplifier? - morricab 09:47:06 08/17/06 (2)
- Re: What happens to back EMF with a feedback amplifier? - Dan Banquer 09:54:52 08/17/06 (1)
- Re: What happens to back EMF with a feedback amplifier? - morricab 10:25:48 08/17/06 (0)
- Perhaps a better way of visualising it? - clifff 07:20:50 08/17/06 (6)
- Definitely a better way of visualising it !!!!!!! - Soundmind 06:42:33 08/18/06 (3)
- Re: Definitely a better way of visualising it !!!!!!! - morricab 11:36:20 08/18/06 (2)
- Re: Definitely a better way of visualising it !!!!!!! - morricab 11:53:36 08/18/06 (0)
- Morricab...stick to chemicals...preferably water, it's safer nt - Soundmind 11:42:04 08/18/06 (0)
- Re: Perhaps a better way of visualising it? - morricab 09:56:06 08/17/06 (1)
- Rate of change! - clifff 10:24:03 08/17/06 (0)