The problems with bias in sighted tests are obvious.

Follow Ups Full Thread

Topic - Distortion and Audibility...replay. - morricab 09:53:13 06/17/08 (170)

For 150 clams.. - gymwear5@hotmail.com 14:07:33 06/24/08 (0)

Play the Sheffield record/CD..... - Awe-d-o-file 15:47:38 06/18/08 (1)

RE: Play the Sheffield record/CD..... - Todd Krieger 02:06:41 06/19/08 (0)

RE: Distortion and Audibility...replay. - rick_m 12:14:30 06/17/08 (42)

RE: Distortion and Audibility...replay. - andy_c 12:42:21 06/17/08 (41)

RE: Distortion and Audibility...replay. - morricab 00:39:40 06/18/08 (27)

RE: Distortion and Audibility...replay. - Ugly 11:25:44 06/18/08 (23)

RE: Distortion and Audibility...replay. - morricab 15:42:23 06/18/08 (22)

RE: Distortion and Audibility...replay. - rick_m 06:22:48 06/19/08 (21)

RE: Distortion and Audibility...replay. - morricab 11:29:34 06/19/08 (4)

RE: Distortion and Audibility...replay. - rick_m 12:22:27 06/19/08 (3)

RE: Distortion and Audibility...replay. - morricab 01:39:25 06/20/08 (1)

RE: Distortion and Audibility...replay. - rick_m 06:19:20 06/20/08 (0)

RE: Distortion and Audibility...replay. - morricab 01:35:39 06/20/08 (0)

RE: Distortion and Audibility...replay. - AJinFLA 09:37:01 06/19/08 (7)

I'm there... - rick_m 11:40:38 06/19/08 (2)

RE: I'm there... - AJinFLA 03:36:53 06/20/08 (1)

It was a local bunch... - rick_m 07:33:02 06/20/08 (0)

RE: Distortion and Audibility...replay. - morricab 11:33:58 06/19/08 (2)

RE: Distortion and Audibility...replay. - AJinFLA 17:08:04 06/19/08 (1)

RE: Distortion and Audibility...replay. - morricab 01:40:57 06/20/08 (0)

RE: Distortion and Audibility...replay. - morricab 11:33:23 06/19/08 (0)

RE: Distortion and Audibility...replay. - andy_c 08:53:03 06/19/08 (7)

RE: Distortion and Audibility...replay. - morricab 11:31:08 06/19/08 (4)

RE: Distortion and Audibility...replay. - andy_c 11:48:32 06/19/08 (3)

RE: Distortion and Audibility...replay. - morricab 01:49:25 06/20/08 (2)

RE: Distortion and Audibility...replay. - andy_c 07:18:17 06/20/08 (1)

RE: Distortion and Audibility...replay. - morricab 07:35:59 06/20/08 (0)

RE: Distortion and Audibility...replay. - rick_m 11:11:47 06/19/08 (0)

RE: Distortion and Audibility...replay. - AJinFLA 09:26:53 06/19/08 (0)

RE: Distortion and Audibility...replay. - andy_c 08:19:58 06/18/08 (0)

RE: Distortion and Audibility...replay. - rick_m 06:46:04 06/18/08 (1)

RE: Distortion and Audibility...replay. - morricab 08:25:52 06/18/08 (0)

So, the big discovery = tubeamps sound better than xistor amps in clipping? Stop the presses! - Ugly 15:26:00 06/17/08 (12)

Of course it's possible a much higher power solid state amp would never clip at all? - Richard BassNut Greene 08:46:04 06/18/08 (9)

I am convinced that is what is already happenning. - Ugly 11:14:11 06/18/08 (8)

RE: I am convinced that is what is already happenning. - morricab 16:26:01 06/18/08 (7)

RE: I am convinced that is what is already happenning. - Ugly 01:00:14 06/19/08 (6)

RE: I am convinced that is what is already happenning. - morricab 02:16:43 06/19/08 (5)

RE: I am convinced that is what is already happenning. - theaudiohobby 08:56:46 06/20/08 (4)

RE: I am convinced that is what is already happenning. - morricab 01:33:04 06/21/08 (2)

RE: I am convinced that is what is already happenning. - theaudiohobby 13:16:38 06/21/08 (1)

RE: I am convinced that is what is already happenning. - morricab 04:35:58 06/22/08 (0)

If speakers were measured in fluid ounces we might have some data (nt) - AJinFLA 10:08:51 06/20/08 (0)

That seems to be the gist of it (nt) - andy_c 15:36:11 06/17/08 (1)

'Tis indeed. - rick_m 16:59:25 06/17/08 (0)

Much said about "audibility" is beliefs rather than facts - Richard BassNut Greene 10:07:38 06/17/08 (123)

Round and around we go, where we stop nobody knows. nt - Norm 18:03:29 06/17/08 (0)

RE: Much said about "audibility" is beliefs rather than facts - morricab 14:59:22 06/17/08 (11)

Incredible how much you talk about audio and how little you know about audio - Richard BassNut Greene 08:34:10 06/18/08 (10)

RE: Incredible how much you talk about audio and how little you know about audio - morricab 16:13:04 06/18/08 (9)

Every "point" of yours calmly refuted with one hand tied behind my back (read Monday = avoid ruining weekend) - Richard BassNut Greene 09:13:34 06/20/08 (4)

RE: Every "point" of yours calmly refuted with one hand tied behind my back (read Monday = avoid ruining weeke - morricab 02:19:32 06/21/08 (3)

You say: "Sometimes not at first but with time they all (amplifiers) sound different. Same with preamplifiers" - Richard BassNut Greene 08:33:12 06/23/08 (2)

RE: You say: "Sometimes not at first but with time they all (amplifiers) sound different. Same with preamplifiers" - morricab 06:44:54 06/24/08 (0)

RE: You say: "Sometimes not at first but with time they all (amplifiers) sound different. Same with preamplifiers" - morricab 06:41:04 06/24/08 (0)

Your silence is deafening, RBNG - morricab 01:59:36 06/20/08 (2)

It takes a day for me to recover from reading one of your posts - Richard BassNut Greene 08:27:38 06/20/08 (1)

RE: It takes a day for me to recover from reading one of your posts - morricab 01:51:33 06/21/08 (0)

Wow! Bingo! You have done what I have been too lazy to do--having the studies at hand. nt - Norm 08:57:28 06/19/08 (0)

Gee, Richard, maybe those tests are simply not appropriate. - robert young 11:29:55 06/17/08 (109)

You can and should say the same thing about uncontrolled subjective comparisons - Richard BassNut Greene 08:59:30 06/18/08 (30)

The problems with bias in sighted tests are obvious. - robert young 13:20:55 06/18/08 (26)

SBT's are useful too - Richard BassNut Greene 14:04:38 06/18/08 (25)

You continue to ignore the glaring problem of "T." - robert young 14:17:47 06/18/08 (24)

You remind me of a guy who claims to have a 200 IQ but refuses an IQ test because they make him nervous - Richard BassNut Greene 14:30:16 06/18/08 (23)

You Remind Me Of A Guy Who Makes Up Stories To Support His Beliefs - thetubeguy1954 19:31:48 06/18/08 (21)

You claim exceptional hearing skills and sometimes claim to do tests but you never test your claims - Richard BassNut Greene 08:55:27 06/19/08 (20)

Neither do you - E-Stat 07:25:23 06/20/08 (4)

What are you challenging me to some kind of hearing test using headphones? - Richard BassNut Greene 13:56:47 06/20/08 (3)

Finally you answer - E-Stat 14:18:31 06/20/08 (2)

I gave your brain time to rest, but alas, you're confused, as usual - Richard BassNut Greene 14:57:29 06/20/08 (1)

Simple questions for you - E-Stat 15:08:15 06/20/08 (0)

And You Say The Same BS Over & Over - thetubeguy1954 13:41:22 06/19/08 (14)

Your so-called tests were a joke - Richard BassNut Greene 13:59:46 06/20/08 (0)

The lesson that you and others should learn - bjh 14:08:44 06/19/08 (12)

Extended character attacks NEVER refute points I make in posts - Richard BassNut Greene 14:01:21 06/20/08 (0)

BJH --- I Agree Completely With Your Post - thetubeguy1954 06:42:21 06/20/08 (2)

"we should all choose to simply ignore Richard BassNut Greene, AJinFLA & Pat D" - Richard BassNut Greene 14:06:24 06/20/08 (1)

You were doing so well.... - robert young 16:44:46 06/20/08 (0)

Gosh, you're right!! - robert young 15:12:33 06/19/08 (7)

You forgot to say ... - Richard BassNut Greene 09:25:43 06/20/08 (2)

RE: You forgot to say ... - morricab 02:25:25 06/21/08 (0)

But I don't know that.... - robert young 09:50:33 06/20/08 (0)

I'm sorry Robert but - bjh 17:23:37 06/19/08 (3)

Okey-dokey. - robert young 19:19:20 06/19/08 (2)

I'm starting a petition to bring back Roaring Poser and Teresa ....... & anyone else needed for more fun ? - Richard BassNut Greene 14:16:25 06/20/08 (1)

Thanks for the laugh.... - robert young 15:08:45 06/20/08 (0)

That would be funny, if.... - robert young 14:39:01 06/18/08 (0)

OR... you can create a fantasy in your head about 30 years of - bjh 10:41:07 06/18/08 (1)

The true fantasyland is "everything sounds different" as no one can EVER demonstrate that skill to witnesses . - Richard BassNut Greene 14:09:05 06/18/08 (0)

another logical fallacy #19. nt - Analog Scott 09:14:43 06/18/08 (0)

An ABX DBT can be calibrated for sensitivity to differences - Analog Scott 15:00:17 06/17/08 (4)

Nulls are not meaningless, Mr. Brainiac - Richard BassNut Greene 09:09:30 06/18/08 (3)

Nice strawman. never said they were meaningless. - Analog Scott 09:22:58 06/18/08 (2)

I assume an "uncalibrated test" is any test whose results don't match your beliefs? - Richard BassNut Greene 14:13:50 06/18/08 (1)

well, it is like you to make a dumb ass assumption - Analog Scott 15:27:11 06/18/08 (0)

RE: Gee, Richard, maybe those tests are simply not appropriate. - Pat D 14:05:13 06/17/08 (72)

RE: Gee, Richard, maybe those tests are simply not appropriate. - Analog Scott 15:05:25 06/17/08 (47)

The test is a way to check claims made during sighted uncontrolled comparisons - Richard BassNut Greene 14:22:44 06/18/08 (2)

Did you even read my post? - Analog Scott 15:54:59 06/18/08 (1)

You mean your convoluted "logic" where a system is only good enough for a test if you like the test results? - Richard BassNut Greene 09:05:55 06/19/08 (0)

RE: Gee, Richard, maybe those tests are simply not appropriate. - Pat D 17:02:25 06/17/08 (43)

logical fallacy #19 - Analog Scott 00:06:37 06/18/08 (27)

Logic can be a wonderful thing . . . - Pat D 17:00:07 06/18/08 (26)

"but not misapplied logic. I have not used a tu quoque argument." - Analog Scott 17:23:40 06/18/08 (25)

A comparison is not a tu quoque. - Pat D 02:44:16 06/19/08 (24)

RE: A comparison is not a tu quoque. - morricab 01:54:37 06/20/08 (1)

RE: A comparison is not a tu quoque. - robert young 05:41:30 06/20/08 (0)

Null DBTs are not very interesting - Tony Lauck 20:32:02 06/19/08 (10)

Where are the "null results" in sighted non-SPL matched comparisons? - Richard BassNut Greene 08:23:27 06/25/08 (1)

RE: Where are the "null results" in sighted non-SPL matched comparisons? - Tony Lauck 08:38:44 06/25/08 (0)

Great post! - kerr 05:40:51 06/20/08 (7)

Actually, you're both wrong about this. - Pat D 16:14:57 06/20/08 (6)

RE: Actually, you're both wrong about this. - Tony Lauck 18:10:41 06/20/08 (2)

RE: Actually, you're both wrong about this. - Pat D 20:02:52 06/20/08 (1)

RE: Actually, you're both wrong about this. - Tony Lauck 17:53:18 06/21/08 (0)

" Or didn't you read what jj has said on this?" This is getting pathetic. - robert young 16:28:46 06/20/08 (2)

The Leventhal AES article on this is a must-read - andy_c 17:57:01 06/20/08 (1)

RE: The Leventhal AES article on this is a must-read - Pat D 18:17:55 06/23/08 (0)

Put your arrogance aside for just a moment. - robert young 03:52:25 06/19/08 (10)

No, it is arrogant to ignore the evidence. (nt) - Pat D 18:41:48 06/19/08 (9)

And that is exactly what you have been doing. - robert young 19:16:45 06/19/08 (8)

Yet another self-declared winner. - Pat D 06:09:37 06/21/08 (7)

I didn't realize this was a sporting event. - robert young 07:33:32 06/21/08 (6)

"Game over" is your expression. So now you're taking your marbles and going home? - Pat D 07:56:25 06/21/08 (5)

You don't seem to have understood my position. - robert young 08:01:40 06/21/08 (4)

Your position doesn't concern me, only your arguments. (nt) - Pat D 17:12:33 06/21/08 (3)

That was your biggest cop-out yet. - robert young 17:26:29 06/21/08 (2)

Anyone can take a position. It's the justification that interests me. - Pat D 19:24:20 06/21/08 (1)

I explained why. If you don't like the reasons, that's not going to affect me one way or the other. - robert young 06:19:57 06/22/08 (0)

Pat, it isn't whether sighted is better or worse, its about... - robert young 18:42:57 06/17/08 (14)

"Non-calibrated" describes the typical out-of-control sighted audition - Richard BassNut Greene 14:40:41 06/18/08 (3)

Yes, I do dislike sighted tests... - robert young 16:17:18 06/18/08 (2)

"I make no claims of superiority of either the system or my ears." - Richard BassNut Greene 09:19:59 06/19/08 (1)

"Those audiophiles who have tested their ears comparing interconnects would not worry..." - robert young 09:33:35 06/19/08 (0)

No, you still haven't got it. - Pat D 19:21:36 06/17/08 (9)

Yes I do, but I'm convinced you don't. - robert young 13:39:59 06/18/08 (0)

RE: No, you still haven't got it. - bjh 20:30:07 06/17/08 (7)

RE: No, you still haven't got it. - Pat D 17:20:20 06/18/08 (6)

"Richard isn't the only one." You mean those others (like Richard) have dreamt - bjh 19:55:17 06/18/08 (0)

I would say logical fallacy #3 again but... - Analog Scott 17:27:46 06/18/08 (4)

I would say argumentem ad hominem. (nt) - Pat D 17:38:14 06/18/08 (3)

That would be an odd thing to say given there was no argument - Analog Scott 17:44:46 06/18/08 (2)

Nonsense. - Pat D 02:49:35 06/19/08 (1)

You have correctly - E-Stat 10:16:39 06/21/08 (0)

Of course calibration is required. - robert young 14:16:48 06/17/08 (23)

It depends on the purpose of the audition. - Pat D 17:14:51 06/17/08 (22)

Ah yes, another example of Fallacy # 3 - E-Stat 14:03:10 06/18/08 (0)

Let's go back to basics. As you often chastise others for not doing. - robert young 18:47:55 06/17/08 (20)

Yes, let's do get back to real life basics. - Pat D 20:03:32 06/17/08 (19)

Yes, let's discuss authority. - robert young 14:05:35 06/18/08 (18)

RE: Yes, let's discuss authority. - Pat D 17:34:02 06/18/08 (17)

You are so far from getting this. - robert young 19:54:54 06/18/08 (16)

Known Flaws In DBTS! - thetubeguy1954 08:39:56 06/19/08 (1)

It seems we have taught you something . . . - Pat D 14:21:15 06/19/08 (0)

You haven't come up with any reasons to doubt accepted scientific protocols. - Pat D 02:54:44 06/19/08 (13)

Yes I have. - robert young 03:45:55 06/19/08 (12)

Your arguments don't support your conclusion. - Pat D 14:40:37 06/19/08 (11)

Sorry, but I do not accept your points. - robert young 15:08:02 06/19/08 (10)

Just for your benefit... - bjh 17:42:49 06/19/08 (9)

But do you benefit? - Pat D 18:02:29 06/19/08 (8)

When I suggested that you research "forced choice," I didn't intend... - robert young 19:24:59 06/19/08 (6)

I gave you the thread--you can search around it all you want. - Pat D 16:04:20 06/20/08 (1)

I'm sad that you clearly can't give this more attention. - robert young 16:37:03 06/20/08 (0)

JJ was just the sort to earn Pat D's adulation... - bjh 20:23:28 06/19/08 (3)

I was around when he took his ball and left. - robert young 03:32:27 06/20/08 (2)

I expect he had other things to do . . . - Pat D 05:57:06 06/21/08 (1)

Though the point is irrelevant, you are right about it. - robert young 06:27:04 06/21/08 (0)

RE: But do you benefit? - bjh 18:32:29 06/19/08 (0)

Follow Ups

The problems with bias in sighted tests are obvious. - robert young 13:20:55 06/18/08 (26)

SBT's are useful too - Richard BassNut Greene 14:04:38 06/18/08 (25)

You continue to ignore the glaring problem of "T." - robert young 14:17:47 06/18/08 (24)

You remind me of a guy who claims to have a 200 IQ but refuses an IQ test because they make him nervous - Richard BassNut Greene 14:30:16 06/18/08 (23)

You Remind Me Of A Guy Who Makes Up Stories To Support His Beliefs - thetubeguy1954 19:31:48 06/18/08 (21)

You claim exceptional hearing skills and sometimes claim to do tests but you never test your claims - Richard BassNut Greene 08:55:27 06/19/08 (20)

Neither do you - E-Stat 07:25:23 06/20/08 (4)

What are you challenging me to some kind of hearing test using headphones? - Richard BassNut Greene 13:56:47 06/20/08 (3)

Finally you answer - E-Stat 14:18:31 06/20/08 (2)

I gave your brain time to rest, but alas, you're confused, as usual - Richard BassNut Greene 14:57:29 06/20/08 (1)

Simple questions for you - E-Stat 15:08:15 06/20/08 (0)

And You Say The Same BS Over & Over - thetubeguy1954 13:41:22 06/19/08 (14)

Your so-called tests were a joke - Richard BassNut Greene 13:59:46 06/20/08 (0)

The lesson that you and others should learn - bjh 14:08:44 06/19/08 (12)

Extended character attacks NEVER refute points I make in posts - Richard BassNut Greene 14:01:21 06/20/08 (0)

BJH --- I Agree Completely With Your Post - thetubeguy1954 06:42:21 06/20/08 (2)

"we should all choose to simply ignore Richard BassNut Greene, AJinFLA & Pat D" - Richard BassNut Greene 14:06:24 06/20/08 (1)

You were doing so well.... - robert young 16:44:46 06/20/08 (0)

Gosh, you're right!! - robert young 15:12:33 06/19/08 (7)

You forgot to say ... - Richard BassNut Greene 09:25:43 06/20/08 (2)

RE: You forgot to say ... - morricab 02:25:25 06/21/08 (0)

But I don't know that.... - robert young 09:50:33 06/20/08 (0)

I'm sorry Robert but - bjh 17:23:37 06/19/08 (3)

Okey-dokey. - robert young 19:19:20 06/19/08 (2)

I'm starting a petition to bring back Roaring Poser and Teresa ....... & anyone else needed for more fun ? - Richard BassNut Greene 14:16:25 06/20/08 (1)

Thanks for the laugh.... - robert young 15:08:45 06/20/08 (0)

That would be funny, if.... - robert young 14:39:01 06/18/08 (0)

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