We who can hear it so plainly, have given up on the obstreperous rest. nt - clarkjohnsen

Follow Ups Full Thread

Topic - Has anyone's mind ever been changed by a DBT debate here? - mkuller 13:50:21 12/16/06 (192)

Yes I was moderated by them - Robert Hamel 17:31:35 12/18/06 (0)

No, sighted listening is fine for me. - okiemax 17:30:07 12/18/06 (2)

No, sighted listening is fine for me... - mkuller 17:52:15 12/18/06 (1)

Re: Trusting sighted listening - okiemax 12:14:26 12/19/06 (0)

Yes, my mind was changed by endless DBT debates - Axon 10:39:32 12/18/06 (4)

It's refreshing to see a pro-DBTer... - mkuller 11:18:41 12/19/06 (0)

Re: Yes, my mind was changed by endless DBT debates - Todd Krieger 22:24:08 12/18/06 (0)

There's nothing *really* wrong with DBTs, apart from... - clarkjohnsen 13:42:28 12/18/06 (0)

I may or may not agree with your methodology - kerr 11:24:30 12/18/06 (0)

these are religious beliefs - tunenut 15:37:56 12/17/06 (0)

Re: Has anyone's mind ever been changed by a DBT debate here? - theaudiohobby 13:37:57 12/17/06 (36)

Delusions about Delusions..... - Todd Krieger 23:40:17 12/18/06 (0)

You are the poster boy... - mkuller 14:16:21 12/17/06 (34)

You are the poster boy for everything wrong with the audiophile hobby (do you ever read your attacks and misinformation? - Richard BassNut Greene 08:42:48 12/18/06 (11)

Look at your post at the bottom here and then in the mirror...(nt) - mkuller 10:08:23 12/18/06 (0)

Still smarting from that little statistics lesson I see ... but no one - bjh 08:51:20 12/18/06 (9)

You provided no statistics lesson other than showing you needed a logic class - Richard BassNut Greene 09:26:56 12/18/06 (8)

Re: Type 2 errors - okiemax 12:40:54 12/18/06 (0)

Keep working it! ROTFL nt - bjh 09:41:28 12/18/06 (6)

After study, I have noticed you make fewer errors in shorter posts. My calculations suggest 3 words are perfect for you - Richard BassNut Greene 09:52:54 12/19/06 (5)

Get original would you ... - bjh 10:04:15 12/19/06 (4)

Remember the movie where a guard clangs his steel cup on the steel prison cell bars & drives inmates nuts as he passes - Richard BassNut Greene 10:19:45 12/19/06 (3)

One thing I refuse to do... - kerr 11:28:09 12/19/06 (0)

Actually I was thinking your posts were more akin to that nasty childhood occurrence of mine ... - bjh 11:01:51 12/19/06 (1)

Hey that was really funny...... Pretty soon I'll start agreeing with everything you post ... - Richard BassNut Greene 08:51:52 12/20/06 (0)

Re: You are the poster boy... - theaudiohobby 15:05:48 12/17/06 (21)

Let's look at the big picture... - mkuller 16:04:37 12/17/06 (20)

Re: Let's look at the big picture... - AJinFLA 03:46:55 12/18/06 (15)

Re: Let's look at the big picture... - Todd Krieger 00:10:48 12/19/06 (1)

Well.. - AJinFLA 03:53:13 12/19/06 (0)

Re: Let's look at the big picture... - john curl 17:12:34 12/18/06 (1)

Re: Let's look at the big picture... - AJinFLA 17:58:57 12/18/06 (0)

How come you rigid objectivists never post your systems? - mkuller 10:10:51 12/18/06 (7)

He's talked about it before - E-Stat 06:23:41 12/19/06 (3)

"Radio Shack wires and cables. Stageworks 8 outlet power center." LOL! (nt) - mkuller 11:20:45 12/19/06 (1)

Yup. No props/crutches here. Or needed (nt) - AJinFLA 15:17:39 12/19/06 (0)

PING E-STAT - thetubeguy1954 10:33:06 12/19/06 (0)

Re: How come you rigid objectivists never post your systems? - AJinFLA 17:50:18 12/18/06 (2)

I think John explained it to you pretty well...(nt) - mkuller 17:55:42 12/18/06 (1)

No, actually you did (nt) - AJinFLA 18:39:27 12/18/06 (0)

Well Furutech has published a paper for a similar (demag) product - bjh 08:23:54 12/18/06 (2)

Re: Well Furutech has published a paper for a similar (demag) product - AJinFLA 17:43:54 12/18/06 (1)

Since you choose to be - bjh 19:34:46 12/18/06 (0)

Re: Let's look at the big picture... - theaudiohobby 02:05:37 12/18/06 (3)

"There is not much to debate..... DBT are a well established protocol," Yes indeed, but it does not immediately follow - bjh 08:14:49 12/18/06 (0)

You've got that right! - Pat D 06:16:49 12/18/06 (1)

No, it's just your imaginary friend! - kerr 13:09:09 12/18/06 (0)

Not really, that would be the beginning of the end. - soulfood 13:27:24 12/17/06 (0)

No, but when I was young, - Al Sekela 12:22:01 12/17/06 (6)

Re: No, but when I was young, - john curl 13:01:12 12/17/06 (5)

You got it... - mkuller 14:19:14 12/17/06 (4)

Proof positive - kerr 04:53:51 12/18/06 (3)

Re: Proof positive - jneutron 10:57:59 12/18/06 (2)

Re: Proof positive - kerr 11:30:51 12/18/06 (1)

Re: Proof positive - jneutron 11:48:24 12/18/06 (0)

Actually, yes - E-Stat 06:53:27 12/17/06 (6)

Re: yet another dirty pane of glass - KlausR. 01:12:23 12/18/06 (4)

Could you possibly - E-Stat 07:06:49 12/18/06 (3)

Sure They Can - thetubeguy1954 09:56:52 12/18/06 (2)

;) -nt - E-Stat 12:10:51 12/18/06 (0)

They are independent problems. - jneutron 10:52:57 12/18/06 (0)

Excellent analogy on the window glass. nt - clarkjohnsen 10:44:24 12/17/06 (0)

No. - Dave Pogue 03:55:37 12/17/06 (0)

Re: There is no chance of winning any arguement - KlausR. 00:41:40 12/17/06 (17)

Seeing the device.... - mkuller 12:10:18 12/17/06 (11)

You did NOT answer my question!!! - KlausR. 01:02:26 12/18/06 (10)

Why we need to see the components - kerr 04:31:01 12/18/06 (9)

You have a point there! - KlausR. 08:30:05 12/18/06 (8)

Well, there's THAT, and... - kerr 09:04:29 12/18/06 (7)

Re: But it doesn't prove anything. - KlausR. 23:40:36 12/18/06 (6)

Re: But it doesn't prove anything. - thetubeguy1954 13:47:05 12/19/06 (4)

Re: But it doesn't prove anything. - KlausR. 23:52:08 12/19/06 (3)

It Proves Everything! - thetubeguy1954 06:27:42 12/20/06 (2)

Re: It's a very simple question so please answer it. - KlausR. 07:16:14 12/21/06 (1)

Re: It's a very simple question so please answer it. - thetubeguy1954 07:52:38 12/21/06 (0)

Re: But it doesn't prove anything. - kerr 04:55:49 12/19/06 (0)

False premise. No one "need[s] to SEE the device" --- any more than one needs *not* to see it. nts - clarkjohnsen 10:42:19 12/17/06 (4)

Re: Then why do you perform SIGHTED listening test, when there's no need to SEE ??? (nt) - KlausR. 01:04:12 12/18/06 (3)

Because as Clark said, there's no need NOT to see! - kerr 04:48:47 12/18/06 (2)

Good points! (And ones that I had not yet myself considered.) nt - clarkjohnsen 09:18:22 12/18/06 (1)

It's not limited to audio and peanut butter so don't let that throw you. :) (nt) - kerr 11:33:12 12/18/06 (0)

Sure. - Pat D 20:40:07 12/16/06 (42)

Still can't read, can you... - mkuller 12:02:23 12/17/06 (41)

Re: Still can't read, can you... - thetubeguy1954 10:35:07 12/18/06 (1)

Tubey does not deny misquoting, quoting out of context, thinking illogically, etc. - Pat D 08:57:44 12/27/06 (0)

Getting judgmental? Or is it just your nature? - Pat D 17:58:47 12/17/06 (36)

Judgemental??? - mkuller 19:06:58 12/17/06 (35)

Pat Doesn't Know What He Believes - thetubeguy1954 11:12:26 12/18/06 (9)

Tom hasn't established a contradiction. - Pat D 16:38:57 12/18/06 (8)

But I've Proven The GAMES You Play! - thetubeguy1954 06:44:21 12/19/06 (7)

Incompetent, irrelevant, and immaterial. - Pat D 07:33:03 12/19/06 (6)

Let's take the wire tests query you never responded to, Mr. Mindreader...(nt) - mkuller 13:12:45 12/19/06 (5)

Actually I did answer it. Link provided. - Pat D 21:02:42 12/23/06 (0)

Ignoring The Questions Pat Is Asked Is #10 From His List Of Tactics - thetubeguy1954 08:18:38 12/20/06 (3)

Thetubeguy1954 does not deny he has misquoted me, misunderstood me, reasoned illogically, used strawman arguments, etc. - Pat D 03:44:42 12/27/06 (2)

Proof Pat D Cake LIES Yet Once Again - thetubeguy1954 09:50:50 12/27/06 (1)

Tubebuy made a whole bunch of allegations but fails to justify them. - Pat D 14:59:54 12/27/06 (0)

Sorry, the null hypothesis cannot be proven so I don't assert the null hypothesis. - Pat D 19:40:58 12/17/06 (24)

It's all semantics, isn't it , Slippery Pat? (nt) - mkuller 19:56:27 12/17/06 (23)

No, I understand it's just basic statistics. (nt) - Pat D 20:12:28 12/17/06 (22)

The Real Pat D - thetubeguy1954 13:12:42 12/18/06 (21)

You've got a nice list there of some of your shortcomings, ToM. - Pat D 16:55:15 12/18/06 (20)

Nice Of You To Prove You Play Games For Me. Pat D-Cake - thetubeguy1954 07:03:49 12/19/06 (19)

Tom thinks he can get away with saying anything he wants about anyone, and then whines when proved wrong. - Pat D 07:46:11 12/19/06 (18)

Pat Thinks He Can Tell Untruths (Lies?) & Not Be Exposed Etc! - thetubeguy1954 09:30:20 12/19/06 (17)

Tubey's list of undocumented allegations against me - Pat D 09:45:10 12/27/06 (0)

So you admit that you're wrong. - Pat D 09:44:42 12/19/06 (15)

Pat Please Stop This Constant Lying Ok? - thetubeguy1954 10:44:41 12/19/06 (14)

How many people have you accused of being liars here, Tom? - Pat D 12:02:11 12/19/06 (13)

Only Those Who Lie Like YOU Do (NT) - thetubeguy1954 12:18:00 12/19/06 (12)

In fact, you have accused people of lying over 60 times since June 2006, mostly not even trying to prove the allegation. - Pat D 01:54:03 12/27/06 (0)

Maybe this will be of some help, Tom. - Pat D 14:46:13 12/19/06 (10)

Thanks For Proving My Point - thetubeguy1954 07:12:33 12/20/06 (9)

Tom says all these are liars: Dan Banquer, Richard Greene, real jj, soundmind, Don T, Cliff, Pat D, and maybe even Lynn - Pat D 15:56:54 12/20/06 (8)

Changing The Topic As Usual When Your Caught With Your Own Words Pat D-Cake. - thetubeguy1954 09:04:15 12/21/06 (7)

I said "some' but tubey reacts as if I had said "every" or "none." - Pat D 10:22:50 12/21/06 (6)

Re: I said "some' as if it applies to the SPECIFIC question I asked and it doesn't! Which is YOUR Typical Mistake! - thetubeguy1954 10:49:36 12/21/06 (5)

Tubey misquotes himself (!) to change the meaning. Why am I not surprised? - Pat D 11:52:32 12/21/06 (4)

It's Called Amplifying The Meaning Pat D-Cake - thetubeguy1954 08:14:14 12/22/06 (3)

No, you changed the meaning, much as as you previously changed a question into a "claim." - Pat D 11:17:44 12/22/06 (2)

Wahhhhh I'm Pat D-Cake And I Cannot Have My Way - thetubeguy1954 13:51:51 12/22/06 (1)

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, Tom. (nt) - Pat D 15:25:48 12/22/06 (0)

Re: This is prop head.. - theaudiohobby 13:15:52 12/17/06 (0)

You mean to say Pat-D-cake actually *has* DBT experiences? Woah!, and here - bjh 12:11:02 12/17/06 (0)

No, nor is anyone convinced about what the best amp, preamp, etc. is. - Norm 20:06:34 12/16/06 (9)

Plus, the ONE THING that DBTs have conclusively proved -- the audibility of absolute polarity -- is still dismissed... - clarkjohnsen 10:40:14 12/17/06 (8)

Where does one find a commercial recording where absolute polarity was preserved? - Richard BassNut Greene 09:35:07 12/19/06 (0)

Actually, the audibility of polarity inversions under some circumstances has been established. - Pat D 20:09:00 12/17/06 (0)

It is curious how non-insistent those who hear it are and why some cannot hear it. nt - Norm 11:09:08 12/17/06 (5)

We who can hear it so plainly, have given up on the obstreperous rest. nt - clarkjohnsen 11:21:22 12/17/06 (4)

""obstreperous rest""..you mean, we all deliver babies?? - jneutron 10:54:44 12/18/06 (3)

COOL! - kerr 11:53:49 12/18/06 (2)

Hey..Don't you have some research to do?? - jneutron 12:03:26 12/18/06 (1)

It's done. My bail is set at $100K - kerr 12:53:50 12/18/06 (0)

No, but I learned to recognize - bjh 18:51:15 12/16/06 (23)

Who collects "the observations of thousands of audiophiles accumulated over decades of experience?" - Pat D 20:30:45 12/16/06 (22)

Lack of agreement on cables doesn't imply that the all sound the same, merely that peoples' tastes and systems vary. nt - Norm 09:12:43 12/17/06 (20)

True, but it doesn't mean they sound different, either. - Pat D 10:00:31 12/17/06 (19)

Only if you ASSUME people hear what they want to hear. nt - Norm 11:12:49 12/17/06 (18)

Nope. No such assumption is required. - Pat D 18:08:23 12/17/06 (16)

Appeals to authority, such as those who are "knowledgeable" is bad science. - Norm 20:01:36 12/17/06 (5)

I'll just bet you accept all sorts of expert opinions. - Pat D 20:23:06 12/17/06 (4)

Provide Document Proof Of YOUR Opinions Pat - thetubeguy1954 13:25:18 12/18/06 (1)

You don't seem to look at documents and evidence. - Pat D 20:30:04 12/23/06 (0)

Certainly in day to day life, but I also reject many based on their failures. But - Norm 08:01:33 12/18/06 (1)

So who is here talking about assessing a preference with DBTs????? - Pat D 07:31:42 12/26/06 (0)

Perception of small differences... - mkuller 19:27:56 12/17/06 (9)

Re: Perception of small differences... - Pat D 19:43:10 12/17/06 (8)

Funny, you never answered my last question... - mkuller 19:55:14 12/17/06 (7)

Re: Funny, you never answered my last question... - Pat D 20:28:42 12/17/06 (6)

Nice try Slippery Pat... - mkuller 10:23:20 12/18/06 (5)

I answered your question. You just don't like the answer. (nt) - Pat D 04:09:03 12/24/06 (0)

Just More Pat D's Audio Politics - thetubeguy1954 13:45:55 12/18/06 (3)

You forgot # 11 - E-Stat 14:02:26 12/18/06 (2)

Thank you for drawing attention to a feature of tubeguy's tactics! - Pat D 05:27:56 12/25/06 (0)

I'm Attempting To Keep The List A Managable Size (nt) - thetubeguy1954 10:46:30 12/19/06 (0)

Don't you know that expectation bias - E-Stat 14:31:44 12/17/06 (0)

Get lost pest! nt - bjh 21:41:37 12/16/06 (0)

Not At All..... Because..... - Todd Krieger 17:27:19 12/16/06 (0)

Absolutely! - kerr 16:44:12 12/16/06 (0)

Not easy to change a closed mind! - Richard BassNut Greene 14:21:14 12/16/06 (10)

You were doing so well.... - robert young 14:35:27 12/16/06 (9)

Golden ears have silly beliefs about how well they can hear (no one can ever demonstrate similar abilities to witnesses) - Richard BassNut Greene 08:25:53 12/18/06 (8)

Who are these "Golden Ears" of whom you speak??? - robert young 09:09:32 12/18/06 (7)

They better watch out for the witch! - E-Stat 14:15:55 12/18/06 (0)

"Golden Ears" are people who never say "They sound the same to me" which is silly when comparing a component with itself - Richard BassNut Greene 09:38:23 12/18/06 (5)

I'll try again: - robert young 15:49:59 12/18/06 (4)

Re: I'll try again: - Pat D 00:03:06 12/20/06 (1)

"mild satire????" - robert young 07:01:07 12/20/06 (0)

His 'Golden Ear' is made out of straw like most of his points...(nt) - mkuller 17:35:43 12/18/06 (1)

"Straw"? ... you're too generous! nt - bjh 19:49:44 12/18/06 (0)

Follow Ups

We who can hear it so plainly, have given up on the obstreperous rest. nt - clarkjohnsen 11:21:22 12/17/06 (4)

""obstreperous rest""..you mean, we all deliver babies?? - jneutron 10:54:44 12/18/06 (3)

COOL! - kerr 11:53:49 12/18/06 (2)

Hey..Don't you have some research to do?? - jneutron 12:03:26 12/18/06 (1)

It's done. My bail is set at $100K - kerr 12:53:50 12/18/06 (0)