In Reply to: Been checking a little bit of Quantz myself posted by Chris from Lafayette on March 19, 2016 at 18:14:21:
The relative lack of discussion of vibrato in the Quantz treatise, written 40 years before the Tromlitz one, is revealing, imho. But "finger vibrato", which Quantz also seems to be talking about, is nothing like breath vibrato, (which is very much like the singing vibrato we think of when we discuss the term today). Also, finger vibrato could only be an occasional ornament, as anyone who tries to play these instruments would tell you.
Over and out, I'm looking into this "bong" thing Rick mentioned.
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Follow Ups Full ThreadTopic - Beethoven Sym #1 - Part 3 of 6 - The Ascendency & World Domination of Beethoven HIPs - Newey 20:08:02 03/17/16 (80)
- Really!? - Timbo in Oz 12:32:17 03/20/16 (3)
- I'm with you! Pretentious drivel. nt - oldmkvi 09:26:46 03/21/16 (2)
- And Conceited, too -Calls himself Severius! Supremus Invictus [nt] - Newey 15:22:05 03/21/16 (0)
- RE: I'm with you! Pretentious drivel. nt - Timbo in Oz 13:51:42 03/21/16 (0)
- Here's a question- are the HIPers necessarily saying.... - MWE 17:36:34 03/18/16 (55)
- My answer -- not as cleverly put as jdaniel's, alas. - rbolaw 15:47:50 03/19/16 (1)
- My point exactly- historical document re-creation, not be all/end all. nt. - MWE 08:02:10 03/20/16 (0)
- Sometimes people can't accept the reality that... - jdaniel@jps.net 18:52:34 03/18/16 (32)
- And yet. . . and yet. . . (with apologies to Strauss and Hofmannsthal!) - Chris from Lafayette 20:45:27 03/18/16 (27)
- "the person with taste will know what to do!" - Newey 20:39:52 03/19/16 (26)
- Believe it or not, I agree with a lot of that. - rbolaw 08:06:09 03/20/16 (24)
- I'd humbly add that it also depends upon where an instrument was made; French-made instruments have a - jdaniel@jps.net 13:17:52 03/20/16 (23)
- No - Not Quite - The Truth Is Much More Complex - Newey 00:36:28 03/21/16 (12)
- If you've learned all of that - rbolaw 08:39:07 03/21/16 (10)
- "there are those who use original instruments. . . very effectively" - Chris from Lafayette 10:31:43 03/21/16 (9)
- Please stop enabling your mini-me further. : ) Try Handel's Cecilia w/Lott - jdaniel@jps.net 11:44:34 03/21/16 (8)
- You win... - Ivan303 18:21:27 03/21/16 (2)
- Achingly beautiful. nt - jdaniel@jps.net 19:13:43 03/21/16 (1)
- . . . it only it weren't spoiled by the. . . -oh never mind! [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 00:25:43 03/22/16 (0)
- You won't believe this, but I used to have that recording (I think on open reel tape!) - Chris from Lafayette 16:44:47 03/21/16 (4)
- Oh, Puh-leeeze! You really prefer Klemperer accompanying? Maybe Rosty on Cello? : ) nt - jdaniel@jps.net 19:15:15 03/21/16 (3)
- Nope - let's not go to extremes! [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 19:59:51 03/21/16 (2)
- . . . although, come to think of it, a Klemperer/Slava St. Cecelia would at the very least be interesting! [nt - Chris from Lafayette 23:40:24 03/21/16 (1)
- If you like too much starch in your gravy. nt - jdaniel@jps.net 08:21:39 03/22/16 (0)
- How long we've been waiting for you to realize that. : ) - jdaniel@jps.net 08:18:25 03/21/16 (0)
- Yes - but some of those French instruments. . . - Chris from Lafayette 19:01:40 03/20/16 (1)
- Can't speak to that... - Ivan303 21:19:16 03/20/16 (0)
- Ah yes, but - rbolaw 15:09:02 03/20/16 (7)
- HIP Berioz? - Ivan303 18:18:39 03/20/16 (3)
- There's already HIP Berlioz - Chris from Lafayette 18:33:52 03/20/16 (2)
- Susan Graham more than makes up for it... - Ivan303 08:05:28 03/21/16 (1)
- RE: Susan Graham more than makes up for it... - Chris from Lafayette 10:28:07 03/21/16 (0)
- Isn't there a glissando in the Symphonie Fantastique that modern winds can't handle? nt - jdaniel@jps.net 15:39:48 03/20/16 (2)
- That one's tough. - rbolaw 18:58:43 03/20/16 (0)
- Are you talking about those solos near the beginning of the last movement? [nt] - Chris from Lafayette 18:24:21 03/20/16 (0)
- And the audiophile with taste will know which recording to buy. - genungo 07:28:51 03/20/16 (0)
- "Music....you slut! How could you?" Hahahahaha! - MWE 20:09:32 03/18/16 (3)
- RE: "Music....you slut! How could you?" Hahahahaha! - jdaniel@jps.net 20:28:04 03/18/16 (2)
- Who's sending you to your room? [nt] - Chris from Lafayette 20:46:26 03/18/16 (1)
- Too funny, I use the word "mistress" and, well; wait 'till till they find out I'm only packin' 12.... - jdaniel@jps.net 21:20:03 03/18/16 (0)
- Even I can get behind that post, although of course. . . - Chris from Lafayette 18:43:09 03/18/16 (18)
- RE: Even I can get behind that post, although of course. . . - rbolaw 08:41:22 03/19/16 (14)
- Sorry, Roy - that's not the way I read it - Chris from Lafayette 11:57:49 03/19/16 (13)
- Have you studied this topic? - rbolaw 13:55:44 03/19/16 (12)
- I don't believe that what Tromlitz says about flute playing applies to string playing - Chris from Lafayette 14:25:02 03/19/16 (11)
- If you want some vibrato-related aversion therapy, try to sit through Cleobury's old Spem in Alium on Argo. n - jdaniel@jps.net 18:03:04 03/19/16 (3)
- I've already got a Spem in Alium recording - Chris from Lafayette 20:33:42 03/19/16 (2)
- Of course, the lack of vibrato, IIRC, has something to do with clarifying the lines. : ) nt - jdaniel@jps.net 01:03:29 03/20/16 (1)
- That's what some of them claim anyway [nt] - Chris from Lafayette 10:01:13 03/20/16 (0)
- RE: I don't believe that what Tromlitz says about flute playing applies to string playing - rbolaw 15:06:46 03/19/16 (6)
- Been checking a little bit of Quantz myself - Chris from Lafayette 18:14:21 03/19/16 (1)
- OK, it's all good. - rbolaw 18:29:42 03/19/16 (0)
- Guys, guys. Light up your bongs and forget about this stuff. - Rick W 18:05:50 03/19/16 (3)
- I'll be right over...!!! nt - oldmkvi 09:28:46 03/21/16 (0)
- What is a "bong"? - rbolaw 18:16:50 03/19/16 (0)
- Sorry, Rick - saw your post too late! [nt] ;-) - Chris from Lafayette 18:15:35 03/19/16 (0)
- Re: vibrato, take Savall: I find the sounds he produces to be exquisite and - jdaniel@jps.net 18:56:00 03/18/16 (2)
- +1 nt - rbolaw 14:09:17 03/19/16 (1)
- Thanks, Savall's Alia Vox recordings were some of the best-sounding CDs I owned - jdaniel@jps.net 17:51:52 03/19/16 (0)
- +1 nt - srl1 18:11:59 03/18/16 (0)
- RE: Beethoven Sym #1 - Part 3 of 6 - The Ascendency & World Domination of Beethoven HIPs - Kas 10:40:36 03/18/16 (3)
- Over The Years - Newey 22:44:52 03/18/16 (2)
- RE: Over The Years - Kas 10:52:18 03/22/16 (1)
- Jarvi is certainly HIP-influenced, although he does use modern instruments - Chris from Lafayette 17:58:50 03/22/16 (0)
- So I can put you down as a "No" for HIP performances? nt - srl1 08:06:14 03/18/16 (14)
- The 1st mov't of Morris' "hell bent for leather" Beethoven 1st clocks in at 8:29. But Klemp's? - jdaniel@jps.net 08:39:56 03/18/16 (13)
- Duh....Yuh..Uh - Newey 09:00:24 03/18/16 (12)
- Good catch on the Klemp' though I'm reminded of the old saying: even a broken metronome is right two times a - jdaniel@jps.net 10:56:05 03/18/16 (2)
- Hey Bubba - Newey 22:56:40 03/18/16 (1)
- Yes, I know what an exposition repeat is. I didn't listen to the Klemp and personally I find audacious that he - jdaniel@jps.net 12:51:52 03/19/16 (0)
- But poseurs like yourself tend to assume that speed equals glibness and - jdaniel@jps.net 09:25:17 03/18/16 (8)
- No - I Don't - Newey 10:00:40 03/18/16 (7)
- Speed. What else could you mean by your association of cocaine w/ the HIP mov't? How could Norrington, your #1 - jdaniel@jps.net 10:26:17 03/18/16 (6)
- BOYS! BOYS! - Can we please stop using terms like "Idiot", "Ediot" and "Poseur"? - Chris from Lafayette 15:47:15 03/18/16 (5)
- If you invited this rabid idiot back OR let him back in - Timbo in Oz 02:36:40 03/24/16 (0)
- How about "stupid and hopelessly vulgar"? - rbolaw 16:44:25 03/18/16 (3)
- I'll beat Newey to the punch - Chris from Lafayette 18:30:03 03/18/16 (2)
- RE: I'll beat Newey to the punch - rbolaw 05:58:05 03/19/16 (0)
- + Dorati [Mercury] [nt] - Newey 18:37:13 03/18/16 (0)
- I'm sorry Newey, but I quite "know" why I like my Beethoven "rough and unlubricated" - jdaniel@jps.net 21:27:47 03/17/16 (0)
Follow Ups
- OK, it's all good. - rbolaw 18:29:42 03/19/16 (0)