Music Lane It's all about the music, dude! Sit down, relax and listen to some tunes.

---

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] Thread: [ Display  All  Email ] [ Music Lane ]

---

[ Alert Moderator ]

---

Have you studied this topic?

Posted by rbolaw on March 19, 2016 at 13:55:44

In Reply to: Sorry, Roy - that's not the way I read it posted by Chris from Lafayette on March 19, 2016 at 11:57:49:

I'm sorry to have to put it this way, but after reading so many posts from you on this subject, I'm surprised at your apparent ignorance of 18th century performance practice.
First, I'm sure you realize there are very big differences between voice, winds and strings when it comes to vibrato. And as I said, very big differences between "modern" instruments (mid-19th century onwards) and those of the 18th and early 19th centuries.
Here is Tromlitz, the leading flutist of CPE Bach's and Mozart's time, writing in 1791:
"The flattement is an undulating, fluctuating motion which is made on a long, held note, and can be slow or fast, uniform or waxing and waning. On the flute it is produced by repeatedly partially or halfway closing and opening the next hole down from the long note with the finger, or another hole completely, according to the demands of the circumstances. It is not done with the breath on the flute: this does not have a good effect, but makes a wailing sound; and anyone who does it spoils his chest and ruins his playing altogether.... It is not advisable to use this ornament frequently. On long notes, fermatas, and on the note before a cadenza, it can be used ...."
The difference between this concept of vibrato and that of, say, James Galway, is immense. When vibrato is used, it is with the finger, not the breath (i.e., chest or diaphragm) as is universal today. A big (but not the only) reason for this is that the flute of CPE Bach and Mozart is a completely different instrument from the flute of today, as far as the harpsichord or clavier is from the modern piano. The idea of vibrato as an occasional ornament is also profoundly different from the modern approach.
This concept of vibrato survived at least partially until at least circa 1905, when Paul Taffanel, a close friend of Saint-Saens and respected colleague of Verdi and Tchaikovsky, wrote: "With Bach, as with all the great classical composers, the player must maintain the greatest simplicity. There should be no vibrato or any form of quaver, an artifice used by mediocre instrumentalists and inferior musicians. It is with the tone that the player conveys the music to the listener. Vibrato distorts the natural character of the instrument and spoils the interpretation, very quickly fatiguing a sensitive ear. It is a serious error and shows unpardonable lack of taste to use these vulgar methods to interpret the great composers."
By "classical", Taffanel essentially means Bach through Mozart. What we call "romantic" he would consider "modern". This is a huge departure from Tromlitz, both because he is talking about breath vibrato on a modern flute rather than finger vibrato, and drawing a profound distinction between "classical" style and "modern" (his term for romantic) style.
Then consider Marcel Moyse (1889-1984), one of Taffanel's last students, who worked closely with Debussy, Ravel and Stravinsky, writing in 1974 about the situation as of 1905: "The advent of vibrato, especially amongst winds, was far from being enthusiastically received.... [W]ith some singers and with many string players, not only did the quality of vibrato leave much to be desired, but most of the time their indiscriminate use of it had wretched consequences on the music." He goes on to describe his own 20th century concepts of vibrato for strings and winds, whom he advises to "learn vibrato from singers" rather than strings. This is a diplomatic but huge departure from his revered teacher Taffanel, not least because he makes no distinction between the use of vibrato for classical or romantic (or modern) music. And Moyse explicitly discusses the use of the diaphragm for vibrato that Tromlitz explicitly rejected. The idea of vibrato as an occasional ornament is also essentially gone.
Some modern HIP players and conductors have a better grasp of these concepts than others. But if music is boring, it isn't authentic, and it's a failure.
There is much more to this topic than I can quote or discuss here. But if you don't like Norrington, blame him, not the HIP movement.

This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:

Parts Connexion

---

[ Top of Page ] [ Contact Us ] [ Support/Wish List ] [ Copyright © 2025, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]

---

[ General ] [ Speakers ] [ Tubes ] [ Vinyl ] [ Digital ] [ Hi-Rez ] [ Video Asylum ] [ Cables ] [ Tweaks/DIY ] [ Music ] [ Films ]

---