RE: Bits of Resolution!

Posted by Thorsten (M) on October 19, 2015 at 18:05:54

In Reply to: RE: Bits of Resolution! posted by J. Phelan on October 19, 2015 at 15:51:49:

Hi,

> The "format converter" is non-starter. Because they cannot
> (possibly) convert to native-DSD, in a playback device.

I am not sure what you mean with the above. It is fairly trivial to convert from (say) 88.2kHz/24Bit PCM to DSD and from DSD to (say) 88.2kHz/Bit PCM. Of course the conversion is not lossless.

> And on DSD, like before, you're all theory. No actual recordings
> are made using a 1-bit path. Everyone edits, changes levels, etc.

Alas, YOU are mistaken. There are DSD recordings done precisely like this, single take, no edits. As one of the possible example, try Channel Classics. As a rule all their recordings are straight, native un-edited DSD. Made using DSD converters by Grimm Audio, among others.

I will also, for completeness sake provide a counter example. The label 2L uses Merging Tech Pyramix and Merging Tech/DSD converters and they record always in DXD, which 384kHz/24Bit PCM, edit, mix and master in DXD and then convert to DSD for release.

Both labels have samples to download for free, so you can decide which approach is more to your liking.

Past that Michael Bishop recently won a grammy for a recording done using the Sonoma DSD recording system, where there were zero digital effects applied, all mixing/mastering/editing etc. were done using analogue devices.

At iFi we have sponsored several DSD256 recordings in Japan (Rie Fu and Technoboys Pulcraft Green-Fund recently - both what you might call "Popular music") where again any processing was done in the analogue domain.

> DSD is multi-bit - complete with decimation and oversampling,
> 2 things (we were told) it would avoid.

DSD can avoid these, presuming the engineer doing the recording cares to do so. So what you were told was correct in principle. DSD can be single bit and avoid decimation.

As to does it avoid "Oversampling"? It samples at a higher rate than 44/16 PCM, so it "oversamples" in that sense. If we accept 2.822MHz/1Bit as "cannonical DSD', then DSD128, DSD256 and DSD512oversample, with the usual benefits of oversampling realised.

I agree that many commercial DSD releases probably started life as 48kHz/24Bit on Pro-Tools and were converted with an M-Box (they sound like that anyway), quite a few 192kHz/24 Bit releases seem to have started the same way.

And again I find it incredible that I have to defend DSD against gross misinformation, as someone who is not entirely convinced of the merits of DSD over proper PCM (e.g. derived from Multibit ADC's) in the first place...

Thor

At 20 bits, you are on the verge of dynamic range covering fly-farts-at-20-feet to intolerable pain. Really, what more could we need?

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Follow Ups Full Thread

Topic - The 4 ways to decode digital - J. Phelan 14:11:32 10/13/15 (50)

Bits of Resolution! - Bromo33333 09:11:11 10/18/15 (11)

RE: Bits of Resolution! - Thorsten 07:36:33 10/19/15 (3)

RE: Bits of Resolution! - Tony Lauck 17:37:07 10/19/15 (2)

RE: Bits of Resolution! - Thorsten 18:12:05 10/19/15 (1)

RE: Bits of Resolution! - Tony Lauck 08:59:43 10/20/15 (0)

RE: Bits of Resolution! - J. Phelan 09:47:48 10/18/15 (6)

RE: Bits of Resolution! - Thorsten 08:27:15 10/19/15 (5)

RE: Bits of Resolution! - J. Phelan 10:05:46 10/19/15 (4)

RE: Bits of Resolution! - Thorsten 11:25:12 10/19/15 (3)

RE: Bits of Resolution! - J. Phelan 15:51:49 10/19/15 (2)

RE: Bits of Resolution! - Thorsten 18:05:54 10/19/15 (1)

RE: Bits of Resolution! - J. Phelan 19:29:18 10/19/15 (0)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - Thorsten 19:22:40 10/14/15 (17)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - J. Phelan 19:34:57 10/14/15 (16)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - Thorsten 20:00:25 10/14/15 (15)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - J. Phelan 20:23:29 10/14/15 (14)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - Thorsten 21:36:41 10/14/15 (13)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - J. Phelan 09:09:33 10/15/15 (12)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - Thorsten 18:05:31 10/15/15 (11)

Guys, I think you're both right - Dave_K 09:44:18 10/19/15 (1)

RE: Guys, I think you're both right - J. Phelan 19:34:27 10/19/15 (0)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - Tony Lauck 19:28:39 10/15/15 (0)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - J. Phelan 19:09:40 10/15/15 (7)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - Thorsten 20:25:42 10/15/15 (6)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - Tony Lauck 22:30:38 10/15/15 (3)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - Thorsten 20:26:32 10/16/15 (1)

Gainsetting, and other aspects of audio engineering in the mid 1960's - Tony Lauck 11:53:23 10/17/15 (0)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - J. Phelan 09:24:49 10/16/15 (0)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - J. Phelan 20:35:10 10/15/15 (1)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - Thorsten 21:26:46 10/15/15 (0)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - Thorsten 19:33:17 10/13/15 (11)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - J. Phelan 20:26:51 10/13/15 (10)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - Thorsten 23:53:21 10/13/15 (9)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - J. Phelan 05:26:15 10/14/15 (4)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - Thorsten 06:12:29 10/14/15 (3)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - J. Phelan 08:25:26 10/14/15 (2)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - Thorsten 18:09:28 10/14/15 (1)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - J. Phelan 18:20:30 10/14/15 (0)

BB PCM4104 - jusbe 00:37:13 10/14/15 (3)

RE: BB PCM4104 - Thorsten 00:45:49 10/14/15 (2)

RE: BB PCM4104 - jusbe 01:03:50 10/14/15 (1)

RE: BB PCM4104 - Thorsten 02:09:13 10/14/15 (0)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - PAR 18:41:27 10/13/15 (4)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - Todd Krieger 10:23:10 10/15/15 (2)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - J. Phelan 17:30:37 10/15/15 (0)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - PAR 15:17:47 10/15/15 (0)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - J. Phelan 19:04:54 10/13/15 (0)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - ahendler 15:49:33 10/13/15 (2)

RE: The 4 ways to decode digital - J. Phelan 15:52:25 10/13/15 (1)

Sure hope not... - Ivan303 17:32:03 10/13/15 (0)

Follow Ups

RE: Bits of Resolution! - Thorsten 18:05:54 10/19/15 (1)

RE: Bits of Resolution! - J. Phelan 19:29:18 10/19/15 (0)

RE: Bits of Resolution!

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