In Reply to: RE: Machina Dynamica's Teleportation Tweak posted by tomservo on June 28, 2007 at 06:41:04:
Tom,I'm not sure how to take this comment "Getting suspicious are we?" I've always been suspicious and skeptical. There are three tweaks that in that past were proven to work, at least proven well enough for me, that is. As I've stated numerous times here there was a time when I believed wires couldn't possibly influence how an audio system sounds. Apparently many of the objectivists here cannot accept that someone would change their mind about wires, so my comments are mocked and dismissed as simply being made up, but truth be told I had stopped doing business with more than one dealer for trying to sell me on the idea that wires mattered. Fortunately for me Bernie an audio dealer I bought from in Newington, Connecticut was willing to put his $$$$ where his mouth was because he knew how I felt about wires and could have lost my business.
I was getting ready to upgrade from a $2.2K OCM88 preamp to a $4K Counterpoint SA5000 preamp. Bernie, the owner asked me if I trusted him to do me right and when I said yes, he said instead of spending $2000 to upgrade the preamps invest that $2000 in wires and you'll get more of an improvement! I was furious, I told him I would NEVER do business with him again. Bernie took the time to sooth my dispostion and made this suggestion. Go home and get all your wires Tom. In the meantime I'll setup an exact duplicate of your system here (I bought my system from Bernie so that was easy for him to do) When you get back we'll compare your wires to some wires I suggest you use. Then you can hear for yourself if wires do or don't make a difference.
So I went home and got my wires and a couple of my prized CD's. When I arrived Bernie took my wires which was all Radio Shack, (their best interconnects and their pseudo-monster speaker wires) and hooked the system together. Next we dropped in one of my CD's and I listened. When the song ended Bernie asked what I thought. I told him I liked it of course as it sounded essentially like what I heard at home.
Ok Bernie said lets exchange preamps. So preamps were exchanged and the Counterpoint SA5000 replaced my OCM88. Then my CD was played again. Once again when the song ended Bernie asked what I thought.
"I think it sounds a bit better." I said.
"$2000 worth of better?" Bernie asked.
"Well Bernie that's hard to say, what's $2000 worth of better supposed to sound like?" I said thinking about diminishing returns and all that. I remember Bernie laughing and saying "A $2000 investment in an upgrade SHOULD be immediately noticeable!"So Bernie put the OCM88 back into the system and played my song again. It sounded just like it did at home (essentially) but not quite as good as the Counterpoint. I was beginning to question whether the SA5000 was worth $2000 for upgrading, but probably would have bought it as it was better and I was considering diminishing returns once again.
Now Bernie shut everything off and on one side he hooked up AudioQuest Emerald interconnects & speakerwire (as best I can remember that is) I do know it was AudioQuest and the combo was equal to about the $2000 I would have spent on the preamp.
Now before we continue remember:
1) I believed wires didn't influence the sound of an audio system.
2) I expected not to hear any differences with these wires.
3) My "Expectation Bias" should have influenced me to NOT hear a differences "if" the theory about "Expectation Bias" is correct!Once again Bernie played my CD. This time he played only the channel my wires were on. It sounded just as I expected it to sound and essentially like it did at my home. Then Bernie looked at me and said "Ready?" I said, "Yes!" and Bernie now only played the channel with the Emeralds on it. I was shocked at the level of improvement. It sounded so much realistic, I was absolutely amazed. Before the song was even complete I wanted to hear the system with all the emeralds attached. This time it was even better than before, deeper, wider soundstage and just all around more realistic sounding. I couldn't believe a simple wire, dielectric and a jacket could influence the sound so much.
Needless to say I bought the wires. I went home and reattached my original wires and it all sounded very good to me. Perhaps I was fooling myself I thought? But then I pulled out my wires and hooked up the AudioQuest wires and just like at Bernies the soundstage got wider, deeper, bass was more extended and everything sounded just so much more realistic. So wires is one tweak on that I was wrong about.
There was also a time I didn't believe tubes could possibly sound better than solid state, after all tubes was an antiquated technology. Besides from the first moment you play them they're starting to deteriorate. Yet that myth, just like the wires sound the same myth was also proven to me to be incorrect. Tubes is another area, while maybe not a tweak per say where I was wrong.
Yes Tom I'm skeptical of tweaks when I cannot comprehend how they work. But these days I try to remain open minded enough to accept the possibility that the tweak may work in a way I cannot understand. How can a wire influence sound? I don't know exactly, but I know it does! Why should a tube sound more realistic than a transistor? Once again I'm not exactly sure why they do, but I know the better tubed amps do. Even John Curl admitted Dick Sequerra's tubed amps sounded better than any of his solid state amps! Although John did say his amps give most other tubed amps a run for the money if not actually being better than them.
I also remember when I was about 20 years old I went and visited a Hartley speaker representative in Storrs, Connecticut IIRC. His name was Leo Oxley. He played an all Hartley speaker system, which used the Hartley 24" Super-Woofers! This was one of my first exposures to good tubed equipment he was using an Acoustic Research amp/preamp. During our listening session Leo placed a VPI "Magic Brick" on the transformers of the amp and asked if I heard a difference. I honestly responded "Nope, no difference." Leo said "Lets listen for awhile and see what happens." After maybe 20mins passed Leo asked me once again if I heard any differences and once again I replied once again nope, no difference. At that point Leo said something like if you cannot hear the difference I might as well just remove the "Magic Brick." That's when I heard a difference, BAM! the moment he removed that damned "Magic Brick" the sound got duller and less transparent. Leo just smiled, I imagined he done that little stunt before. It appears that what the VPI did, it did very sllllooowwwlly. Something was definitely happening here-- Did it absorb stray magnetic fields? Did it damped the transformers? Did it dampen the chassis? I don't know what the "Magic Brick" did, but it happened so slowly I could only notice what it did when it was abruptly removed! That's one tweak that really amazed me. To this day I don't know what those "Magic Bricks" did, but they damn sure did it! The "Magic Brick" is the third tweak that worked when I didn't believe it would.
These days Tom I'm still skeptical on a lot of different tweaks, but try to keep an open-mind on things like cable stands, clocks, rocks, wooden discs or bells on walls etc., but I'd be willing to listen to any of them for myself to see if I heard any influence that made the music sound more realistic to me. Some things just sound too far fetched for me to simply believe on blind faith they would work. For tweaks like that I'd have to be shown that they work. That would require my seeing them installed and then my actually hearing a significant improvement. If that's not done for me the manufacturer can keep that tweak.
Thetubeguy1954
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Follow Ups
- I'm Still Skeptical These Days Tom - thetubeguy1954 09:40:54 06/28/07 (59)
- RE: not an example of expectation bias - mls-stl 12:29:39 06/30/07 (0)
- Regarding the bricks - E-Stat 06:06:42 06/29/07 (6)
- I Do - thetubeguy1954 06:45:38 06/29/07 (5)
- The idea behind the bricks - E-Stat 06:56:12 06/29/07 (4)
- Toroids - unclestu52 12:07:03 06/30/07 (0)
- RE: The idea behind the bricks - thetubeguy1954 07:56:12 06/29/07 (0)
- "Toroids render the bricks unnecessary." Is that an experimental result? nt - clarkjohnsen 07:53:49 06/29/07 (1)
- Yes and no - E-Stat 08:22:19 06/29/07 (0)
- RE: I'm Still Skeptical These Days Tom - tomservo 18:12:56 06/28/07 (3)
- RE: I'm Still Skeptical These Days Tom - thetubeguy1954 05:46:40 06/29/07 (0)
- I'm starting to get the impression that presented with - bjh 20:54:30 06/28/07 (1)
- Well don't get the wrong idea, - tomservo 07:05:26 06/29/07 (0)
- The "Magic Brick" was my introduction to high-end tomfoolery (sorry!) way back in 1980. - clarkjohnsen 10:56:56 06/28/07 (46)
- VPI "Magic Brick" = You Don't Know What You've Got Till It's Gone! - thetubeguy1954 11:56:08 06/28/07 (45)
- RE: VPI "Magic Brick" = You Don't Know What You've Got Till It's Gone! - May Belt 14:33:32 06/28/07 (44)
- RE: Test of Once-Removed Theory - Posy Rorer 00:29:29 06/29/07 (43)
- VPI Bricks - unclestu52 01:43:31 06/30/07 (0)
- With three variables in play, analysis always becomes difficult. Myself... - clarkjohnsen 07:39:52 06/29/07 (0)
- RE: Test of Once-Removed Theory - May Belt 04:04:04 06/29/07 (40)
- Basic physics - unclestu52 02:00:03 06/30/07 (2)
- RE: Basic physics - May Belt 06:54:21 06/30/07 (1)
- RE: Basic physics - unclestu52 22:17:12 07/01/07 (0)
- "Tie a Reef knot in any audio cable." That reminds me! - clarkjohnsen 07:49:29 06/29/07 (0)
- "Then any explanation to do with WEIGHT or with MAGNETISM... no longer holds water !!!" Correction: - clarkjohnsen 07:43:50 06/29/07 (24)
- So does anyone here actually have one of these magic bricks to test? - Posy Rorer 12:14:02 06/29/07 (21)
- I have four bricks - unclestu52 02:07:30 06/30/07 (20)
- RE: I have four bricks - May Belt 03:56:01 06/30/07 (19)
- So... Styrofoam bad, Felt good! - rick_m 12:20:49 06/30/07 (15)
- RE: So... Styrofoam bad, Felt good! - May Belt 03:42:49 07/01/07 (0)
- RE: So... Styrofoam bad, Felt good! - Posy Rorer 13:50:27 06/30/07 (13)
- Toothpicks and cherry Lifesavers - Posy Rorer 22:31:57 06/30/07 (8)
- RE: Toothpicks and cherry Lifesavers - rick_m 00:28:53 07/01/07 (7)
- RE: Toothpicks and cherry Lifesavers - Posy Rorer 13:05:06 07/01/07 (2)
- Posy, May, Stu... - rick_m 00:02:01 07/02/07 (1)
- RE: Posy, May, Stu... - unclestu52 01:08:09 07/02/07 (0)
- RE: Toothpicks and cherry Lifesavers - May Belt 04:57:17 07/01/07 (0)
- RE: Toothpicks and cherry Lifesavers - unclestu52 03:01:54 07/01/07 (2)
- RE: Toothpicks and cherry Lifesavers - May Belt 04:50:32 07/01/07 (1)
- a few comments (long) - unclestu52 11:40:49 07/01/07 (0)
- RE: So... Styrofoam bad, Felt good! - rick_m 14:56:39 06/30/07 (3)
- True polycarbonate - unclestu52 20:10:58 06/30/07 (2)
- RE: True polycarbonate - rick_m 23:24:36 06/30/07 (1)
- RE: True polycarbonate - unclestu52 02:33:31 07/01/07 (0)
- My apologies - unclestu52 11:53:42 06/30/07 (2)
- Nice post... - SF tech 13:14:13 06/30/07 (1)
- Shakti Stones - unclestu52 20:00:10 06/30/07 (0)
- RE: "Then any explanation to do with WEIGHT or with MAGNETISM... no longer holds water !!!" Correction: - May Belt 10:56:51 06/29/07 (1)
- I'm just saying, that experiment alone does not eliminate either of the other two possibilities. - clarkjohnsen 11:53:44 06/29/07 (0)
- RE: Test of Once-Removed Theory - thetubeguy1954 06:38:18 06/29/07 (10)
- RE: Test of Once-Removed Theory - May Belt 11:12:29 06/29/07 (9)
- RE: Test of Once-Removed Theory - thetubeguy1954 11:44:17 06/29/07 (8)
- My God! - unclestu52 01:56:08 06/30/07 (3)
- RE: My God! - rick_m 12:53:03 06/30/07 (2)
- I would - unclestu52 20:17:17 06/30/07 (1)
- RE: I would - rick_m 22:14:57 06/30/07 (0)
- RE: Test of Once-Removed Theory - May Belt 14:32:48 06/29/07 (3)
- Thanks May! - thetubeguy1954 06:05:50 07/02/07 (2)
- RE: Thanks May! - May Belt 09:37:14 07/02/07 (1)
- RE: Thanks May! - May Belt 09:42:05 07/02/07 (0)