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Jay of "Jays audio lab " fame has just put out a youtube video where by he unveiled his purchase this week of Wilson Chronosonic speakers - putting his system in the million dollar club and provding him with audio nirvana.
he been all over the place attending major audio shows and claims that the Chronosonics are by far the best speaker he has ever heard .
( the scary part is there are other folks in the industry for decades who are making the same claim )
any comments , ideas , criticisms ..... or even if you just want to vent ....... join on in
Follow Ups:
Fox, meet Grapes.
Me? I'd be interested to hear what the designer calls, "the synchronicity of the leading edge of each note" does for progress in speaker design.
As long as I've been involved in the pursuit of better home music reproduction, a very long time, there have been these same reactions to the next big and expensive thing. Many of the "breakthroughs" that contribute to prices deemed "outrageous" are revealed as simply marketing hype. Some though, over time become commonplace in affordable gear and make everyone's enjoyment better.
Novus Ordo Seclorum
did somebody say they sound bad?
Should have written 'not worth the price', or at least not worth 2 Maserati's.
I was DST'd.
Novus Ordo Seclorum
That is a different conversation. The opinion that a particular, luxury priced item is not worth the money may be sour grapes...or...maybe a well thought out opinion.
Let's take the Wilson Chronosonics. Are they worth the money? Technically speaking the Wilsons do not measure exceptionally well. Not bad...unless you measure them in Michael Fremer's room...;-). They use off the shelf drivers so I hear...They use antiquated passive crossovers. What are you getting for $300+K? A lot of weight? Nice finish? Is that the point of a $300+K speaker system? To perform pretty well and look really cool?
There are numerous speaker systems that are objectively more accurate and achieved that accuracy using cutting edge innovative designs and cutting edge measurements that Wilson neglects to do. And they do this for a fraction of the price.
If some folks love Wilson speakers I have no problem with that. But being critical of their lack of performance for the price isn't necessarily sour grapes
The guy had a walkway and room built away from the main house. They sounded great on big orchestra stuff that a lot of smaller speakers can't pull off that well. I don't listen to big orchestra much. On more sparse and intimate material, I was surprised that I noticed sound coming from individual drivers. It's possible that they weren't properly adjusted.
I have noticed with other Wilson speakers that I can hear the individual drivers with some music. I wonder if this might be due to the midrange driver being out of phase with the tweeter.
Terry
And anyone who does pay that price should be in hiding not on video proclaiming superiority.
350,000 for a speaker is beyond obscene pricing based solely on pandering to Oligarchs egos not sound or performance. Zandi they use off the shelf technology drivers from Scanspeak so dont want to hear "R&D" out of Wilson Co
TWO Maserati
He should charge admission by the hour for curious listeners to experience a cost-no-object system...... I'm pretty sure some audiophiles would fork over money to listen to it.
Only to be disappointed 9 times out of 10?
Some of the "cost-no-object systems" I've heard were atrocious sounding. People running from the rooms! Let me outta here!!
A rich man has about as good a chance of getting into Audio heaven as a camel does of passing through the eye of a needle. - audiophile axiom
There are reasons for everything. -audiophile axiom
I'm quite sure Jay didn't pay *that* price. He wheels and deals in used gear.
I'd bet a lot of money that Jay got the speakers for just under half that amount and will sell them for well over half that amount after doing numerous videos telling us they are the best speakers he has ever had "in his lab."
Last thing he wants to do is hide. High profile insures better sales and profits.
He is just another part of the industry members and especially industry press and reviewers that perpetuate that "prices greater than a new car" should be expected if you want to be a part of this hobby.
And WAY to many people around here have succumbed to this propaganda and defend marketers asking for sums of money that NO WAY they can afford for units that are 10 times more expensive than the the ones they were selling just 10 years ago.
Joseph Audio is just one of many. 10 years ago - 2 way with SEAS metal cone drivers $1500, now with slightly newer SEAS drivers and it's now a bargain at $10,000. One can buy alot of M&Ms
And Jay definitely pushes that belief. State of the art and state of the profit do not go hand in hand. It is well beyond ridiculous.
If not, what good is it ?
Nt
more like a series of tanks
https://whartonsmith.com/wp-content/uploads/BT1_9377-scaled-1280x0-c-default.jpg
Nt
I wonder what kind of a character Story is in real life ?
I heard through the grapevine he's a pin boy at Bowl a Rama.
Nt
Some self-important YouTuber?
There is no "holy grail" in this hobby. There is no audio nirvana that
you do not create yourself. People who make youtube videos are saying
"look at me, look at me, look at me". They are wildly insecure twits.
This guy seems to fit that description pretty well.
Life is hard. It's harder when you're stupid.
We don't give a rat's ass...
"Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. "
― W.C. Fields
Have you watched his videos? He actually seems like a pretty nice guy who's trying to corner a part of audio market that others can't or won't. He's not bragging and I don't think he says these are the holy grail, only that they're the best he's ever heard.The thing about his presentations that make me uncomfortable is that it's clear he doesn't know much about music. He uses the same sample recordings to test each speaker. Really, it doesn't seem he's that interested in the music, only how it sounds. The components are more important to him than the music itself. I can't help believe that this can only lead to frustration down the line. What do you do when you have the best speaker ever? Where is there to go from there? Boredom eventually sets in and all you have is a very expensive machine that happens to play music.
Edits: 03/11/23
And advising people on very expensive purchases. He makes absurd claims of fact. And he charges an hourly rate to be a consultant based on the ridiculous claim that he has unique expertise in "ultra high end" audio. People are spending big bucks on his bull shit.
I guess one can go the "Car and Driver" route in audio..... But I cannot buy into the notion that throwing money at a system will unequivocally upgrade its sound..... I've tried this personally (at a much less expensive level), I too often ended up less-than-impressed with the more expensive gear.....
I guess one's mileage may vary.
I will say this..... In spite of me being unable to afford a single component in Jay's audio system, I do think he has one of the most entertaining audiophile channels on YouTube.
...... sure you do
.
Your interest may vary but the results will be same. (Byrd 2020)
I can't compete with the dead. (Buck W. 2010)
Cowards can't be heroes. (Byrd 2017)
Why don't catfish have kittens? (Moe Howard 1937)
.
Honest sounds like he's enamored by what the speaker is doing wrong. Maybe if he properly sets them up instead sharing his heartfelt sincere emotional response to the speakers just thrown into the room his video would be more than just a flim-flam drama.
or it didn't happen.
"Reality cannot exist because it cannot keep up with the lies on the Internet."
thats actually funny - what he does not realize is I dont make things upand on the reverse I dont think he does either on his forum
Edits: 03/10/23
and not like the eternal rays of God Ra?
he replaced his elaborate horn system with tannoy and old yamaha solid state amp. It's hard not to love the man
around?I always found him interesting, though not easy to follow what he was saying.
iBasso DX300MAX Ti. Focal Utopia and Stellia. iBasso SR2. Mr. Speakers, Ether II, Voce stats. Manley, Absolute headphone amp. LTA MZ3, Z10e electrostatic amp. Many other headphones, amps, cables etc.
Edits: 03/11/23
Nt
statement. Not sure what you mean.
iBasso DX300MAX Ti. Focal Utopia and Stellia. iBasso SR2. Mr. Speakers, Ether II, Voce stats. Manley, Absolute headphone amp. LTA MZ3, Z10e electrostatic amp. Many other headphones, amps, cables etc.
I mean -- in fairness -- treacle is certainly evocative.
Sickly-sweet.
Just the thing for auditioning Savoy Truffle , I would opine.
View YouTube Video
all the best,
mrh
It's a Romy thing. That was one of his descriptions for how one amp sounded. Like treakle. Funny, right?
Edits: 03/11/23 03/11/23
I never read that much in depth what he said.
Thanks for explaining it. About as good as anyone could anyway. :^)
iBasso DX300MAX Ti. Focal Utopia and Stellia. iBasso SR2. Mr. Speakers, Ether II, Voce stats. Manley, Absolute headphone amp. LTA MZ3, Z10e electrostatic amp. Many other headphones, amps, cables etc.
have fun watching...
Edits: 03/12/23
Delete the "&t=255s" at the end of the URL, or you will miss the first half of the video..... [-;
...trinity of glitz. Joel Osteen smitten with the upgrade bug.
what a great response - if nothing else from the perspective of entertainment
"if nothing else from the perspective of entertainment"
Audio magazines have always been about entertainment. And now we see their natural evolution to the Internet. The idea is to entice and entertain, whether you are hawking audio gear or the latest Shark vacuum cleaner.
Nt
I, and perhaps few others, found that what's been heard cannot be unheard - listening to a known piece of music on a system other than your own, if it is markedly superior, that impression will never leave you. You may still like your system, but you will always remember that there is a system that sounds better than yours.
A rich man has about as much chance of getting into Audio Nirvana as a camel has of passing through the eye of a needle.
An ordinary man has no MEANS of deliverance.
yeah, a lot of "criticisms." He didn't exactly discover unobtanium. These speakers were not some legendary mythical creature. They're Wilsons.
Jay comes off as a nice guy all be it a guy who doesn't know much about audio but thinks he's an expert.
But he is also generating revenue from audio. Nothing wrong with that but I think he presents himself as something he isn't and denies the reality about what he is. He presents himself as the foremost expert reviewer of the "ultra high end." And he bases this claim on the fact that he has owned a lot of really expensive gear. Truth is he's a dealer. He buys and sells expensive gear and he reps a few companies that make power conditioners and audiophile cables.
And here are incontrovertible facts about how he operates. He buys expensive gear used. He "reviews" that gear and then he sells that gear. Those are facts.
I don't want to make any assumptions here but that looks like a business model. Have a high profile as a buyer of used uber expensive gear. Pick and buy on the cheap, tell a large audience how great it is on your Youtube channel, sell it at a substantial mark up after driving up the demand with the rave review.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Jay isn't doing that on purpose to make money. But the structure to do that certainly is in place. The best hustlers have to come off as a nice guy.
I used to think he was just a goofball having fun with audio and fumbling his way through it with a lot of money to burn. I'm not so sure now. He has made one thing clear, these "by far the best speakers he has ever heard" will be for sale in 3-6 months. He has already said as much.
Does that sound like the actions of an audiophile or a dealer who is engaging in market manipulation? What audiophile in pursuit of the best sound they can get would make such an acquisition, declare it to be the best thing ever and also announce that they will be for sale in 3-6 months before he ever had them in his room?
We will likely never know, but if we could know, I would bet big bucks that he sells those speakers for a substantial profit.
I thought it was kinda humorous a week or so back when he suggested people subscribe to his channel if they want to find out what his "new" speaker will be. I passed on that one. Plus unless I missed it, I can't really figure out what he uses as a reference source. Is he just streaming? As a non subscriber, all I ever hear him talk about are speakers and amplification. I watched his turntable adventure a few months back, but despite seeming to love vinyl playback, not much about it lately. Maybe only his subscribers are in the know. If that's the case, I guess I'll remain in the dark. I think his strong suit is that he seems to have a pretty good ear,(and apparently a money tree in the back yard) yet I can't take his approach seriously. In my mind, one could wisely spend a fraction of what he's got invested and still put together a SOTA system.
than borrowing gear, free of charge, from manufacturers in exchange for glowing reviews which one publishes for a profit?
"Reality cannot exist because it cannot keep up with the lies on the Internet."
Edits: 03/10/23
If there is a quid pro quo where equipment is loaned to reviewers with an actual agreement that the reviewer will give the equipment a glowing review and then be allowed to sell the equipment I would say that is every bit as bad?
Has such an agreement ever been objectively proven to have happened?
And if so does that give Jay a get out of jail free card?
We could just cut to the chase acknowledge that Hitler was the worst kind of POS and give everyone else a free pass....
I don't *know* that Jay is doing what I suspect he is doing as a matter of fact. But if he is....it's dishonest, unethical and possibly in violation of some consumer protection laws.
But I don't believe any audiophile who is in it for the hobby would plan to sell their holy grail speakers before he even got them home. If you got the best you can't upgrade. If you aren't upgrading when you are buying and selling gear you are doing something else. Business....
Nt
It was bad enough when Art Dudley likened the stress of blind listening tests to that of a teacher being accused of possessing child pornography (which it is not). There is nothing in consumer audio that can be, or should be or needs to be compared to Hitler.
That was kind of my point. Maybe it wasn't clear. I was responding to what looked like the logical fallacy of appeal to worse problems or "not as bad as" dismissing an argument or complaint due to what are perceived to be more important problems. I was poking fun at that by cutting to the chase.
"I was responding to what looked like the logical fallacy of appeal to worse problems or "not as bad as" dismissing an argument or complaint due to what are perceived to be more important problems."
There is no such logical fallacy, by the way. I'm only trying to help.
Scott, your point was clear but there are many examples of personal and corporate fraud you could have used for your comparison. Citing Hitler in any audio context really puts the absurd in reductio ad absurdum.
But I was trying to add a little humor to it by poking fun at so many other arguments that land at Hitler.
Pretty much implicit or the whole system fall apart.
At least the loan of equipment free of charge in exchange for a favorable review part. Anything that happens after that I have no knowledge of.
Why, as a manufacture, would ANYONE send expensive gear to a reviewer, gratis and shipping prepaid, for the reviewer to sit on for quite some time if there was a reasonable chance at all of an unfavorable review?
There is no need for a 'quid pro quo' because it's built into the system.
"Reality cannot exist because it cannot keep up with the lies on the Internet."
A very few less than 'wow' reviews.
That is not the job of the reviewer, but rather to 'find value' in a piece of gear.
To that end, it is important to know how YOUR values do or do NOT line up with any particular reviewer.......
Too much is never enough
I'd like to see objective evidence. We can concoct very elaborate narratives in our heads that seem to make so much sense that they must be true only to discover they aren't true in any way shape or form.
There are over a million Americans who swear they have been abducted by UFOs. But not a shred of evidence to support it. hmmmmm
than to read a less than favorable review.
"Reality cannot exist because it cannot keep up with the lies on the Internet."
"I was disappointed that the Signature Version of the Clever Little Clock didn't work for Jeff and me. But why didn't it work? We discussed this at length, and came up with the following.
First, from a reasonable thinker's standpoint, is the question most readers of this review will ask themselves: Why would stickers on a pair of batteries, a preset Future Time, and a couple of rare-earth magnets on a $20 digital clock, make your audio system sound better? Machina Dynamica provides no scientific data supporting the claims they make for their product; instead, they present such concepts as morphic field and Future Time. While those theories are interesting, they make little scientific sense to me.
How do I explain the Clever Little Clock as a product that some audiophiles have reported has made improvements in their audio system? Before the music starts, might someone believe that there will be a difference, and because of this belief, the differences become discernible? If so, then the question is, did the listener hear actual improvements, or did they hear something they wanted to hear -- something that doesn't exist in an unbiased reality?"
I guess they had to give the clock back since they didn't give it a positive review. Such a loss.....;-)
Nt
the Signature Version of the Clever Little Clock, I'm guessing the UFOs have already visited, processed you and brought you back.
"Reality cannot exist because it cannot keep up with the lies on the Internet."
Over at Positive Feedback, where people are, you know, educated. It even passed a blind test. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Nice try at a dodge. We were talking about reviews. You were claiming none of them were ever critical. I just showed you one that was.
And I was not abducted by aliens. Go figure. I guess I beat the odds?
to his credit he does bring some prudent finical advice to the subject such as warning folks not to buy something so exotic or hard to repair that you will be absolutely fleeced in shipping costs back to Europe or rapped when you want to sell it used
I have used this logic myself in my extremely more meager system
But I have seen first hand folks buy a product full retail at quite a huge sum of money and then when its time to sell they have to bend over and grab their ankles
Nt
there are plenty of products from Europe that are quite reliable and are easy to ship. He doesn't seem to acknowledge components that wouldn't double as gym weights for his workouts as worthy of consideration.
If it isn't massive and expensive it is not "ultra high end" to Jay.
you will pay a fortune to ship a pair of moderate sized speakers to Europe by the time you include insurance
and God only knows when you will get them back
I'd bet it's cheaper to ship a Kii 3/ BXT speaker system back to Europe than a Wilson Chronosonic back to Wilson. I would also be very surprised if you would ever have to ship a speaker back to Europe. They should be repairable by the distributor.
I would also bet the Kii 3/ BXT system would beat the Wilsons in a blind comparison.
Besides, you can bank shipping money by buying the $20K power cords instead of the $40K versions. Just ask Jay about power cords
"If it isn't massive and expensive it is not "ultra high end" to Jay."
Think: Jonathan Valin on steroids.
To paraphrase H.L. Mencken: This hobby is based on the theory that audiophiles know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.
"Jay comes off as a nice guy all be it a guy who doesn't know much about audio but thinks he's an expert."
+1...That has always been my take on the guy.
Love that Mango.
My wife likes her margarita's every so often. We went to a great Mexican restaurant a few weeks ago and tried their raspberry marg, wow, very yummy! I might just go back for the drink alone... and get some great food while there.
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