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In Reply to: RE: "any comments , ideas , criticisms" posted by Analog Scott on March 10, 2023 at 14:20:05
than borrowing gear, free of charge, from manufacturers in exchange for glowing reviews which one publishes for a profit?
"Reality cannot exist because it cannot keep up with the lies on the Internet."
Edits: 03/10/23Follow Ups:
If there is a quid pro quo where equipment is loaned to reviewers with an actual agreement that the reviewer will give the equipment a glowing review and then be allowed to sell the equipment I would say that is every bit as bad?
Has such an agreement ever been objectively proven to have happened?
And if so does that give Jay a get out of jail free card?
We could just cut to the chase acknowledge that Hitler was the worst kind of POS and give everyone else a free pass....
I don't *know* that Jay is doing what I suspect he is doing as a matter of fact. But if he is....it's dishonest, unethical and possibly in violation of some consumer protection laws.
But I don't believe any audiophile who is in it for the hobby would plan to sell their holy grail speakers before he even got them home. If you got the best you can't upgrade. If you aren't upgrading when you are buying and selling gear you are doing something else. Business....
Nt
It was bad enough when Art Dudley likened the stress of blind listening tests to that of a teacher being accused of possessing child pornography (which it is not). There is nothing in consumer audio that can be, or should be or needs to be compared to Hitler.
That was kind of my point. Maybe it wasn't clear. I was responding to what looked like the logical fallacy of appeal to worse problems or "not as bad as" dismissing an argument or complaint due to what are perceived to be more important problems. I was poking fun at that by cutting to the chase.
"I was responding to what looked like the logical fallacy of appeal to worse problems or "not as bad as" dismissing an argument or complaint due to what are perceived to be more important problems."
There is no such logical fallacy, by the way. I'm only trying to help.
Scott, your point was clear but there are many examples of personal and corporate fraud you could have used for your comparison. Citing Hitler in any audio context really puts the absurd in reductio ad absurdum.
But I was trying to add a little humor to it by poking fun at so many other arguments that land at Hitler.
Pretty much implicit or the whole system fall apart.
At least the loan of equipment free of charge in exchange for a favorable review part. Anything that happens after that I have no knowledge of.
Why, as a manufacture, would ANYONE send expensive gear to a reviewer, gratis and shipping prepaid, for the reviewer to sit on for quite some time if there was a reasonable chance at all of an unfavorable review?
There is no need for a 'quid pro quo' because it's built into the system.
"Reality cannot exist because it cannot keep up with the lies on the Internet."
A very few less than 'wow' reviews.
That is not the job of the reviewer, but rather to 'find value' in a piece of gear.
To that end, it is important to know how YOUR values do or do NOT line up with any particular reviewer.......
Too much is never enough
I'd like to see objective evidence. We can concoct very elaborate narratives in our heads that seem to make so much sense that they must be true only to discover they aren't true in any way shape or form.
There are over a million Americans who swear they have been abducted by UFOs. But not a shred of evidence to support it. hmmmmm
than to read a less than favorable review.
"Reality cannot exist because it cannot keep up with the lies on the Internet."
"I was disappointed that the Signature Version of the Clever Little Clock didn't work for Jeff and me. But why didn't it work? We discussed this at length, and came up with the following.
First, from a reasonable thinker's standpoint, is the question most readers of this review will ask themselves: Why would stickers on a pair of batteries, a preset Future Time, and a couple of rare-earth magnets on a $20 digital clock, make your audio system sound better? Machina Dynamica provides no scientific data supporting the claims they make for their product; instead, they present such concepts as morphic field and Future Time. While those theories are interesting, they make little scientific sense to me.
How do I explain the Clever Little Clock as a product that some audiophiles have reported has made improvements in their audio system? Before the music starts, might someone believe that there will be a difference, and because of this belief, the differences become discernible? If so, then the question is, did the listener hear actual improvements, or did they hear something they wanted to hear -- something that doesn't exist in an unbiased reality?"
I guess they had to give the clock back since they didn't give it a positive review. Such a loss.....;-)
Nt
the Signature Version of the Clever Little Clock, I'm guessing the UFOs have already visited, processed you and brought you back.
"Reality cannot exist because it cannot keep up with the lies on the Internet."
Over at Positive Feedback, where people are, you know, educated. It even passed a blind test. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Nice try at a dodge. We were talking about reviews. You were claiming none of them were ever critical. I just showed you one that was.
And I was not abducted by aliens. Go figure. I guess I beat the odds?
to his credit he does bring some prudent finical advice to the subject such as warning folks not to buy something so exotic or hard to repair that you will be absolutely fleeced in shipping costs back to Europe or rapped when you want to sell it used
I have used this logic myself in my extremely more meager system
But I have seen first hand folks buy a product full retail at quite a huge sum of money and then when its time to sell they have to bend over and grab their ankles
Nt
there are plenty of products from Europe that are quite reliable and are easy to ship. He doesn't seem to acknowledge components that wouldn't double as gym weights for his workouts as worthy of consideration.
If it isn't massive and expensive it is not "ultra high end" to Jay.
you will pay a fortune to ship a pair of moderate sized speakers to Europe by the time you include insurance
and God only knows when you will get them back
I'd bet it's cheaper to ship a Kii 3/ BXT speaker system back to Europe than a Wilson Chronosonic back to Wilson. I would also be very surprised if you would ever have to ship a speaker back to Europe. They should be repairable by the distributor.
I would also bet the Kii 3/ BXT system would beat the Wilsons in a blind comparison.
Besides, you can bank shipping money by buying the $20K power cords instead of the $40K versions. Just ask Jay about power cords
"If it isn't massive and expensive it is not "ultra high end" to Jay."
Think: Jonathan Valin on steroids.
To paraphrase H.L. Mencken: This hobby is based on the theory that audiophiles know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.
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