Who decides if "...a few people who think their audio product or tweak makes no audible difference, but decide

Follow Ups Full Thread

Topic - A Serious Proposal - thetubeguy1954 06:53:09 01/25/09 (229)

"I hope this doesn't get deleted ,,," Why would it be deleted? It's a standard - bjh 16:12:52 02/02/09 (10)

If I were the BORED,.. - cheap-Jack 13:41:11 02/03/09 (1)

I *Am* Bored...... - Todd Krieger 21:05:49 02/03/09 (0)

"BS post that is sure to get the normal crowd all worked up" - Richard BassNut Greene 16:39:03 02/02/09 (6)

RE: "BS post that is sure to get the normal crowd all worked up" - robert young 16:48:42 02/02/09 (5)

How True Robert! - thetubeguy1954 04:55:21 02/03/09 (4)

I think you are responding to the wrong post. - robert young 06:57:29 02/03/09 (3)

You're 100% Correct Robert! - thetubeguy1954 09:54:46 02/03/09 (0)

Tubular's posts ALWAYS seem like he is responding to the wrong post ... - Richard BassNut Greene 07:34:03 02/03/09 (1)

You're welcome! - robert young 07:57:34 02/03/09 (0)

What took you so long? - robert young 16:35:33 02/02/09 (0)

Doomed to fail. They only work if you pay full retail. - Enophile 12:31:10 01/29/09 (1)

So There's No Sale....... - Todd Krieger 19:46:59 01/29/09 (0)

"fraudulent shucksters of "snake-oil" are playing on the uninformed audiophile's susceptibility to suggestion" = ??????? - Richard BassNut Greene 09:05:58 01/29/09 (28)

Who decides if "...a few people who think their audio product or tweak makes no audible difference, but decide - Norm 06:58:59 01/30/09 (27)

RE: Who decides if "...a few people who think their audio product or tweak makes no audible difference, but decide - Richard BassNut Greene 13:20:04 01/30/09 (26)

RE: Do people other than audiophiles try to sell tweaks? - rick_m 07:57:26 02/03/09 (1)

I meant selling audio tweaks to audiophiles - Richard BassNut Greene 09:09:06 02/03/09 (0)

So it is you who decides? You are in an entirely untenable position of saying only you or a select few are the - Norm 19:52:35 01/31/09 (4)

I'm trying to decide if you are annoying or very annoying - Richard BassNut Greene 08:32:34 02/02/09 (3)

I hope so! You continue with your unscientific nonsense. - Norm 10:04:28 02/02/09 (2)

You've helped me decide - Richard BassNut Greene 12:58:58 02/02/09 (1)

I knew long ago. It is part of teaching research methods for 40 years. nt - Norm 07:38:30 02/04/09 (0)

Gotta question for ya - E-Stat 15:54:43 01/30/09 (18)

RE: "I don't have the foggiest concept of placement or connection of a Jar of Rocks." - geoffkait 04:49:37 01/31/09 (14)

By all means, then - E-Stat 07:29:24 01/31/09 (13)

RE: "You'll find that I'm certainly not tweak averse. " - geoffkait 09:40:54 01/31/09 (12)

You still haven't answered the original question - E-Stat 09:54:05 01/31/09 (11)

RE: You still haven't answered the original question - geoffkait 09:58:09 01/31/09 (10)

I really didn't expect an intelligent response from you - E-Stat 10:11:16 01/31/09 (9)

RE: "How could you control the tester's knowledge of the presence or absence of the DUT?" - geoffkait 10:28:52 01/31/09 (8)

While your knee was busy jerking you around - E-Stat 10:54:32 01/31/09 (7)

RE: "How can you ensure the tester(s) are unaware of the changes they must affect for the use of the tweak?" - geoffkait 12:20:20 01/31/09 (6)

Simple explanation - E-Stat 13:00:37 01/31/09 (5)

A more serious method... - Tony Lauck 14:22:56 01/31/09 (1)

Your complex test *simulation* example - E-Stat 14:30:02 02/01/09 (0)

RE: Simple explanation - geoffkait 14:12:07 01/31/09 (2)

Once again, my commentary - E-Stat 15:34:24 01/31/09 (1)

RE: "...difference between single and double blind tests. Yours were of the single variety." - geoffkait 16:03:28 01/31/09 (0)

Got an answer for ya - Tony Lauck 17:55:59 01/30/09 (2)

careful... - CD 16:20:20 01/31/09 (0)

That's it!!!! - E-Stat 07:44:30 01/31/09 (0)

I'll get started on the business plan. - CD 14:19:46 01/28/09 (7)

here you go. - Analog Scott 22:00:39 01/28/09 (5)

Bounds of science? - rick_m 08:18:10 01/31/09 (4)

RE: Bounds of science? - Tony Lauck 09:16:28 01/31/09 (3)

RE: Bounds of science? - rick_m 11:00:34 01/31/09 (2)

keep in mind - Analog Scott 13:05:45 01/31/09 (1)

Oh, it was funny... - rick_m 14:30:44 01/31/09 (0)

my humble contribution - Dan Banquer 15:14:15 01/28/09 (0)

A Serious Proposal that could result in a counter productive message and criminal charges - Bambi B 08:53:31 01/28/09 (9)

You Apparently Missed Where I Also Stated Here... - thetubeguy1954 12:10:12 01/28/09 (4)

Still, a better way to protect the gullible audiophile,.. - Bambi B 17:15:32 01/28/09 (3)

I Partially Agree... - thetubeguy1954 11:06:27 01/29/09 (0)

I'm all for... - E-Stat 18:53:54 01/28/09 (1)

I meant to mention too that the tests should use only music performed on the virginal (nt) - Bambi B 00:52:07 01/29/09 (0)

The legality of it - Analog Scott 10:00:29 01/28/09 (3)

RE: The legality of it - Bambi B 10:32:08 01/28/09 (2)

That could lead to some interesting court cases - Analog Scott 11:13:26 01/28/09 (1)

Good points - Bambi B 12:29:36 01/28/09 (0)

For the life of me.... - LarryB 13:52:21 01/27/09 (3)

Well put - kerr 15:27:31 01/27/09 (2)

"I'm ready and willing to become an objectivist" - Richard BassNut Greene 08:57:21 01/28/09 (1)

Well... - kerr 09:05:31 01/28/09 (0)

Why are you such a donk, tubeguy?? - morricab 15:35:05 01/26/09 (94)

"I have no tweaks whatsoever in my system..." - Al Sekela 11:50:10 01/28/09 (10)

RE: "I have no tweaks whatsoever in my system..." - morricab 03:52:05 01/30/09 (9)

Yes, I was fishing for your conception of 'tweak.' - Al Sekela 13:41:36 01/30/09 (8)

RE: Yes, I was fishing for your conception of 'tweak.' - morricab 02:24:34 01/31/09 (7)

We're done. - Al Sekela 12:26:48 01/31/09 (6)

No, I don't think so Al - morricab 07:30:33 02/01/09 (5)

Answering questions... - Al Sekela 11:16:48 02/01/09 (4)

RE: Answering questions... - robert young 16:44:49 02/02/09 (0)

RE: Answering questions... - morricab 10:56:17 02/02/09 (2)

I'll try to explain myself one more time. - Al Sekela 13:56:34 02/04/09 (1)

RE: I'll try to explain myself one more time. - morricab 16:37:26 02/04/09 (0)

Who died and made you the Prop Head ALERT Moderator? - Richard BassNut Greene 09:23:09 01/27/09 (2)

RE: Who died and made you the Prop Head ALERT Moderator? - morricab 06:49:33 01/28/09 (0)

RE: Very well put... - theaudiohobby 01:49:55 01/28/09 (0)

RE: Why are you such a donk, Brad?? - thetubeguy1954 05:14:26 01/27/09 (70)

You've told us what you think the motivation of LFO is *not*, but haven't told us what it is. - Pat D 13:47:37 01/29/09 (38)

What's your methodolgy and how is it based in reality? - Tony Lauck 18:47:14 01/29/09 (37)

RE: What's your methodolgy and how is it based in reality? - Pat D 11:15:09 01/30/09 (36)

RE: What's your methodolgy and how is it based in reality? - Tony Lauck 11:54:42 01/30/09 (35)

RE: What's your methodolgy and how is it based in reality? - Pat D 15:30:57 01/30/09 (34)

RE: What's your methodolgy and how is it based in reality? - Tony Lauck 17:46:33 01/30/09 (33)

RE: What's your methodolgy and how is it based in reality? - Pat D 20:22:21 01/30/09 (32)

RE: What's your methodolgy and how is it based in reality? - Tony Lauck 06:59:42 01/31/09 (31)

RE: What's your methodolgy and how is it based in reality? - Pat D 10:45:36 01/31/09 (30)

Try Dialectic Materialism. That one fits you a bit. (nt) - robert young 15:22:28 01/31/09 (29)

RE: Dielectric materials. - rick_m 09:30:29 02/01/09 (9)

That's pretty clever, though Wikipedia came up with it first . . . - Pat D 19:17:35 02/02/09 (3)

You really are... - robert young 06:59:51 02/03/09 (2)

RE: You really are... - Pat D 09:54:59 02/03/09 (1)

very true. - robert young 09:57:57 02/03/09 (0)

Glad you (nearly) got the joke. - robert young 10:36:39 02/01/09 (4)

Couldn't resist the obvious pun... - rick_m 19:20:21 02/01/09 (2)

RE: Couldn't resist the obvious pun... - robert young 04:04:49 02/02/09 (1)

RE: Couldn't resist the obvious pun... - rick_m 07:42:29 02/02/09 (0)

Tres amusant. nt - geoffkait 10:47:13 02/01/09 (0)

LOL--that's really funny! - Pat D 17:09:34 01/31/09 (18)

RE: LOL--that's really funny! - robert young 07:30:44 02/01/09 (17)

RE: LOL--that's really funny! - Pat D 10:31:53 02/01/09 (16)

RE: LOL--that's really funny! - robert young 10:54:01 02/01/09 (15)

RE: LOL--that's really funny! - Pat D 12:32:01 02/01/09 (14)

You seem to have lost track of the thread. - robert young 15:08:00 02/01/09 (13)

I can only go by what you say . . . - Pat D 16:58:47 02/01/09 (12)

Focus, Pat, focus.... - robert young 10:28:01 02/02/09 (10)

Well, now, you and Tony Lauck alleged I am a materialist with no evidence. - Pat D 19:14:50 02/02/09 (3)

Just the reply I expected. - robert young 03:47:53 02/03/09 (2)

Well, Tony at least expressed some desire for communication--you just made a clumsy attempt at a joke. (nt) - Pat D 06:47:16 02/03/09 (1)

The joke came first and many efforts at communication with you followed. - robert young 06:56:24 02/03/09 (0)

RE: Focus, Pat, focus.... - Tony Lauck 10:50:13 02/02/09 (5)

Focus Tony - Pat D 22:31:31 02/04/09 (4)

RE: Focus Tony - Tony Lauck 04:56:41 02/05/09 (3)

RE: Focus Tony - Pat D 08:09:24 02/05/09 (2)

RE: Focus Tony - Tony Lauck 10:22:41 02/05/09 (1)

RE: Focus Tony - Pat D 11:18:26 02/05/09 (0)

RE: I can only go by what you say . . . - theaudiohobby 17:13:28 02/01/09 (0)

RE: Why are you such a donk, Brad?? - Kristian 09:16:39 01/27/09 (30)

Completely Wrong.... As Usual Kristian. - thetubeguy1954 10:17:51 01/27/09 (29)

Funny, you reaffirm my point in your title! Or didn't you notice? nt. - Kristian 12:26:31 01/27/09 (28)

You're Still Completely Wrong Kristian! - thetubeguy1954 05:08:01 01/28/09 (27)

You're the damned Energizer Bunny. Quit already. nt. - Kristian 08:55:55 01/28/09 (26)

Try holding up a silver cross and wear a garlic clove necklace - Richard BassNut Greene 08:59:51 01/28/09 (25)

Kristain Just Needs To Know What He's Talking About & Stop Whinning When He's Confronted For Being Wrong! - thetubeguy1954 11:57:24 01/28/09 (24)

Boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom....nt - Kristian 08:57:35 01/29/09 (23)

Looking for volunteers for Double-Blonde Tests at my penthouse -- no experience necessary - Richard BassNut Greene 09:11:56 01/29/09 (4)

Energizer bunny....nt - Kristian 09:31:21 01/29/09 (3)

Are you saying that Tubeguy is the energizer bunny or that you are? - Analog Scott 13:49:54 01/29/09 (2)

I know, I know, it's too much fun! nt. - Kristian 14:39:55 01/29/09 (0)

Excellent post - Richard BassNut Greene 14:25:03 01/29/09 (0)

Exactly The Type Of Response I'd Expect From A LFO Kristain. - thetubeguy1954 09:06:16 01/29/09 (17)

RE: Exactly The Type Of Response I'd Expect From A LFO Kristain. - Kristian 09:49:05 01/29/09 (16)

RE: Exactly The Type Of Response I'd Expect From A LFO Kristain. - thetubeguy1954 11:31:22 01/29/09 (15)

Tom, there's nothing wrong with having a preference. - robert young 04:13:33 01/30/09 (3)

You're 100% Correct Robert! - thetubeguy1954 11:47:27 01/30/09 (2)

"My system is a great, big tonecontrol that alters the sound of the signal in many ways." - robert young 15:38:16 01/31/09 (1)

RE: "My system is a great, big tonecontrol that alters the sound of the signal in many ways." - thetubeguy1954 16:56:09 01/31/09 (0)

RE: Exactly The Type Of Response I'd Expect From A LFO Kristain. - Kristian 12:11:19 01/29/09 (1)

RE: Exactly The Type Of Response I'd Expect From A LFO Kristain. - thetubeguy1954 11:04:06 01/30/09 (0)

So, like I've asked you before . . . - Pat D 11:59:02 01/29/09 (8)

Chirp, Chirp, Chirp, Still Waiting For An Answer Of When You Ever Asked Me This Question Pat (nt) - thetubeguy1954 14:53:53 02/01/09 (0)

When Have You Ever Asked Me That Question Before Pat? - thetubeguy1954 06:15:43 01/31/09 (0)

RE: So, like I've asked you before . . . - morricab 04:04:36 01/30/09 (5)

RE: So, like I've asked you before . . . - Pat D 11:03:49 01/30/09 (1)

RE: So, like I've asked you before . . . - morricab 02:29:04 01/31/09 (0)

RE: So, like I've asked you before . . . - Tony Lauck 10:17:13 01/30/09 (2)

RE: So, like I've asked you before . . . - Pat D 11:05:42 01/30/09 (1)

RE: So, like I've asked you before . . . - Tony Lauck 11:41:37 01/30/09 (0)

RE: Why are you such a donk, tubeguy?? - Todd Krieger 17:56:24 01/26/09 (0)

RE: Why are you such a donk, tubeguy?? - Ugly 16:32:18 01/26/09 (0)

RE: "How can I be so smug, you say, its called experience and a well trained ear." - geoffkait 16:22:09 01/26/09 (6)

Folks who make a living defrauding the public - Kristian 09:04:47 01/27/09 (2)

How much cred do audiophools toiling away in mediocrity possess?â€¦ - Wellfed 17:11:53 01/27/09 (0)

RE: Folks who make a living defrauding the public - rick_m 15:16:30 01/27/09 (0)

RE: "How can I be so smug, you say, its called experience and a well trained ear." - morricab 06:44:50 01/27/09 (2)

You're a stooge plus you lack character. nt - geoffkait 17:48:46 01/28/09 (1)

Boy, that's rich, someone like you accusing folks of lacking character! - Kristian 09:08:21 01/29/09 (0)

RE: A Serious Proposal - Kristian 10:46:41 01/26/09 (10)

RE: A Serious Proposal - Pat D 20:29:08 01/27/09 (5)

Wrong As Usual Pat! - thetubeguy1954 10:03:54 01/31/09 (4)

It was your proposal, Tom . - Pat D 13:47:44 02/01/09 (3)

This Is Your Mistaken Interpretation Of My Proposal Pat. - thetubeguy1954 15:59:27 02/01/09 (2)

Your clarified proposal still didn't result in a proposal for an honest business. - Pat D 19:36:51 02/02/09 (1)

Nice Total Evading Of .... - thetubeguy1954 05:16:52 02/03/09 (0)

More LFO B$ - thetubeguy1954 10:27:47 01/27/09 (0)

RE: A Serious Proposal - Todd Krieger 17:44:45 01/26/09 (1)

Oh pity the poor old Controll. - Al Sekela 10:37:08 01/27/09 (0)

so have you ever walked into a church.... - Analog Scott 11:54:57 01/26/09 (0)

"fraudulent shucksters of snake-oil are playing on the uninformed audiophile's susceptibility to suggestion" - Richard BassNut Greene 09:10:05 01/26/09 (1)

RE: "fraudulent shucksters of snake-oil are playing on the uninformed audiophile's susceptibility to suggestion" - Pat D 20:24:29 01/27/09 (0)

RE: A Serious Proposal - Todd Krieger 21:25:58 01/25/09 (0)

I've got to get me a bag of those things! - Don T 14:05:44 01/25/09 (0)

RE: A Serious Proposal - Tony Lauck 12:22:13 01/25/09 (46)

RE: A Serious Proposal - andy19191 00:20:12 01/27/09 (38)

RE: A Serious Proposal - Tony Lauck 07:08:49 01/27/09 (3)

RE: A Serious Proposal - andy19191 11:56:40 01/27/09 (2)

RE: A Serious Proposal - Tony Lauck 12:51:40 01/27/09 (1)

RE: A Serious Proposal - andy19191 13:22:45 01/27/09 (0)

RE: Audiophile phenomenon? - rick_m 04:20:32 01/27/09 (33)

I asked him for specifics a long time ago - E-Stat 16:05:44 01/27/09 (2)

RE: I asked him for specifics a long time ago - andy19191 23:59:13 01/27/09 (1)

Here are the two unanswered ones - E-Stat 06:04:16 01/28/09 (0)

RE: Audiophile phenomenon? - andy19191 12:08:48 01/27/09 (29)

Flat earth audiophile beliefs? - Analog Scott 15:35:23 01/27/09 (25)

RE: Flat earth audiophile beliefs? - andy19191 23:44:27 01/27/09 (24)

RE: Flat earth audiophile beliefs? - Analog Scott 10:18:30 01/28/09 (23)

Perfect Sound: "Science" not Marketing - Tony Lauck 11:25:23 01/28/09 (22)

RE: Perfect Sound: "Science" not Marketing - theaudiohobby 11:58:50 01/28/09 (21)

As opposed to... - E-Stat 19:15:29 01/28/09 (0)

RE: Perfect Sound: "Science" not Marketing - Tony Lauck 12:25:04 01/28/09 (19)

RE: Perfect Sound: "Science" not Marketing - theaudiohobby 04:59:41 01/29/09 (18)

RE: Perfect Sound: "Science" not Marketing - Tony Lauck 07:47:34 01/29/09 (17)

RE: Perfect Sound: "Science" not Marketing - theaudiohobby 08:43:30 01/29/09 (16)

RE: Perfect Sound: "Science" not Marketing - morricab 06:56:08 01/30/09 (4)

RE: It's a marketing slogan not a scientific definition - theaudiohobby 02:43:43 01/31/09 (2)

RE: It's a marketing slogan not a scientific definition - morricab 11:26:31 02/01/09 (1)

RE: It's a marketing slogan not a scientific definition - theaudiohobby 17:08:38 02/01/09 (0)

Warning to LFOs: Caution! Anecdotal Evidence! - Tony Lauck 07:30:29 01/30/09 (0)

"The man on the street given his experience with vinyl ..." - robert young 10:31:20 01/29/09 (0)

RE: Perfect Sound: "Science" not Marketing - Tony Lauck 10:26:59 01/29/09 (9)

Perfect time to check out - E-Stat 19:38:40 02/03/09 (0)

RE: Why attribute a scientific definition to a marketing slogan - theaudiohobby 01:23:20 01/30/09 (7)

I'm not certain that I did. - robert young 04:32:37 01/30/09 (6)

RE: I'm not certain that I did. - theaudiohobby 08:46:04 01/30/09 (5)

Spare me... - robert young 14:06:30 01/31/09 (4)

RE: Does not take away from my point.... - theaudiohobby 14:52:07 01/31/09 (3)

Originally in this thread - Analog Scott 18:21:35 01/31/09 (2)

RE: Originally in this thread - theaudiohobby 03:31:57 02/01/09 (1)

RE: Originally in this thread - Analog Scott 09:17:38 02/02/09 (0)

RE: Audiophile phenomenon? - rick_m 14:50:27 01/27/09 (2)

RE: Audiophile phenomenon? - andy19191 23:29:20 01/27/09 (1)

RE: Audiophile phenomenon? - rick_m 10:29:01 01/28/09 (0)

Yes. - Ugly 13:11:58 01/26/09 (6)

Let Me Clarify My Point On This Issue. - thetubeguy1954 05:39:18 01/27/09 (5)

RE: Let Me Clarify My Point On This Issue. - kerr 06:06:03 01/27/09 (4)

It's like voodoo dolls - Atexanathome 14:58:43 01/28/09 (3)

Do you have... - kerr 05:29:47 01/29/09 (2)

I've got anecdotal evidence they scare people - Atexanathome 17:02:27 01/29/09 (1)

How silly - kerr 04:45:57 01/30/09 (0)

RE: A Serious Proposal - tomservo 11:50:23 01/25/09 (7)

RE: A Serious Proposal - thetubeguy1954 12:22:18 01/25/09 (6)

"I have no problem with anyone not believing in brillant pebbles, intelligent chips or clever clocks" - Richard BassNut Greene 09:30:42 01/26/09 (1)

RE: "much too small to have an audible effect" - rick_m 04:45:25 01/27/09 (0)

Maybe this will help... - robert young 13:57:26 01/25/09 (3)

Hey Young Robert -- watch Robert Young - Richard BassNut Greene 09:23:01 01/26/09 (1)

Great noir... - robert young 09:31:45 01/26/09 (0)

RE: Maybe this will help... - tomservo 14:17:58 01/25/09 (0)

Follow Ups

Who decides if "...a few people who think their audio product or tweak makes no audible difference, but decide - Norm 06:58:59 01/30/09 (27)

RE: Who decides if "...a few people who think their audio product or tweak makes no audible difference, but decide - Richard BassNut Greene 13:20:04 01/30/09 (26)

RE: Do people other than audiophiles try to sell tweaks? - rick_m 07:57:26 02/03/09 (1)

I meant selling audio tweaks to audiophiles - Richard BassNut Greene 09:09:06 02/03/09 (0)

So it is you who decides? You are in an entirely untenable position of saying only you or a select few are the - Norm 19:52:35 01/31/09 (4)

I'm trying to decide if you are annoying or very annoying - Richard BassNut Greene 08:32:34 02/02/09 (3)

I hope so! You continue with your unscientific nonsense. - Norm 10:04:28 02/02/09 (2)

You've helped me decide - Richard BassNut Greene 12:58:58 02/02/09 (1)

I knew long ago. It is part of teaching research methods for 40 years. nt - Norm 07:38:30 02/04/09 (0)

Gotta question for ya - E-Stat 15:54:43 01/30/09 (18)

RE: "I don't have the foggiest concept of placement or connection of a Jar of Rocks." - geoffkait 04:49:37 01/31/09 (14)

By all means, then - E-Stat 07:29:24 01/31/09 (13)

RE: "You'll find that I'm certainly not tweak averse. " - geoffkait 09:40:54 01/31/09 (12)

You still haven't answered the original question - E-Stat 09:54:05 01/31/09 (11)

RE: You still haven't answered the original question - geoffkait 09:58:09 01/31/09 (10)

I really didn't expect an intelligent response from you - E-Stat 10:11:16 01/31/09 (9)

RE: "How could you control the tester's knowledge of the presence or absence of the DUT?" - geoffkait 10:28:52 01/31/09 (8)

While your knee was busy jerking you around - E-Stat 10:54:32 01/31/09 (7)

RE: "How can you ensure the tester(s) are unaware of the changes they must affect for the use of the tweak?" - geoffkait 12:20:20 01/31/09 (6)

Simple explanation - E-Stat 13:00:37 01/31/09 (5)

A more serious method... - Tony Lauck 14:22:56 01/31/09 (1)

Your complex test *simulation* example - E-Stat 14:30:02 02/01/09 (0)

RE: Simple explanation - geoffkait 14:12:07 01/31/09 (2)

Once again, my commentary - E-Stat 15:34:24 01/31/09 (1)

RE: "...difference between single and double blind tests. Yours were of the single variety." - geoffkait 16:03:28 01/31/09 (0)

Got an answer for ya - Tony Lauck 17:55:59 01/30/09 (2)

careful... - CD 16:20:20 01/31/09 (0)

That's it!!!! - E-Stat 07:44:30 01/31/09 (0)

Post a Message!