Good points - jbmcb - Propeller Head Plaza

Good points

Posted by jbmcb (A) on April 27, 2005 at 22:45:12

In Reply to: Re: Rules posted by Steve Eddy on April 27, 2005 at 22:01:13:

> Sure. But then they shouldn't expect to be taken seriously if they're going to play games like that.

Like what? Is it unreasonable of them to request changes if they view the proposed test as flawed? They seemed to allow a lot of latitude, except for a few points which seemed reasonable. Again, YOU get to submit the protocol. It's *ENTIRELY* fair that they get to tweak it.

> I'm certain that he did.

I'm not so sure. He didn't seem to understand why he couldn't see his system. Well, in the final protocol (the one testing GSIC against *no* GSIC, instead of a deactiated one) he shouln't be able to see if they are using the chip or not, and as a check against shananigans (IE cheating). Pretty basic. That KRAMER guy suggested a bedsheet, which Wellfed seemed to ignore.

> but only with a three ring circus going on around him and not anything like his usual routine.

You mean, a guy in the room watching, and another guy coming in to apply the treatment? That's a total of (1) person in the room at all times, and (1) person in occasionally. I guess if you count Wellfed, that *could* be considered a three ring circus. Was Wellfed claiming he could only hear differences in treated and untreated discs when he was the only person in the room? This is something he should have checked in to before starting the claim process, maybe. Of course there would be an observer during the tests, if for no other reason to make sure there were no shenanigans going on. (IE Cheating)

> absolutely no reason why Wellfed shouldn't have been allowed to simply take those discs home with him and listen to them at his leisure or do anything else with them that he wanted to, such as applying the Walker Vivid.

Because it's a *controlled* double blind test. All he gets to do is listen, if he took them home he could be subjecting them to other kinds of tests not in the protocol. Remember, JREF doesn't trust you, as much as you don't trust them. They have nothing to prove, weather the chip works or not. It's the applicant who has to prove to them that they can perform some feat within some parameters (that the *applicant* determines!)

> As long as any handling is done after the disc has been treated (or not as the case may be), who cares?

They do. Why *would* he have to handle the discs? I didn't see him answer that question. The less the subject of the test has to do with the mechanics of it, the better, especially in this protocol. I proposed a protocol where the subject can do whatever they like to the discs a while ago in GA, I guess nobody read it.

> Though I don't see why the procedure can't be done to all the discs prior to listening so that he can just be with himself and the dics and do whatever comparisons he likes with the reference disc, etc.

That's the protocol I proposed :)

/*Music is subjective. Sound is not.*/

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Follow Ups Full Thread

Topic - if this is the new Intelligent chip area, what is status of Amazing Randi million dollar test? (NT) - tunenut 09:37:14 04/26/05 (41)

My claim at JREF has been acrimoniously rejected... - Wellfed 07:01:06 04/27/05 (37)

Well, I'd have rejected your claim when you wanted to coat the CDs . . . - Pat D 06:36:35 04/30/05 (1)

I appreciate you response... - Wellfed 11:32:19 04/30/05 (0)

Problems - jbmcb 17:18:13 04/27/05 (2)

And suggestions :) - jbmcb 19:25:42 04/27/05 (1)

Unfortunately... - Wellfed 20:51:28 04/27/05 (0)

You're kidding, right? - Ken Perkins 13:12:40 04/27/05 (23)

If he's not, you must be. - Steve Eddy 18:22:17 04/27/05 (12)

Re: If he's not, you must be. - Wellfed 21:37:37 04/27/05 (2)

Simple, Part II - jbmcb 21:57:27 04/27/05 (1)

Test dates... - Wellfed 22:41:19 04/27/05 (0)

Rules - jbmcb 19:18:57 04/27/05 (8)

Re: Rules - Steve Eddy 22:01:13 04/27/05 (7)

Re: Rules - Wellfed 22:56:37 04/27/05 (0)

Good points - jbmcb 22:45:12 04/27/05 (5)

Re: Good points - Wellfed 23:17:36 04/27/05 (4)

Sorry - jbmcb 07:26:43 04/28/05 (3)

The other "guy"... - Wellfed 09:00:40 04/28/05 (2)

Does she claim... - jbmcb 09:08:46 04/28/05 (1)

She's never seen a GSIC in person... - Wellfed 09:31:22 04/28/05 (0)

Nope... - Wellfed 13:34:26 04/27/05 (9)

Simple - Ken Perkins 13:49:29 04/27/05 (8)

Re: Simple - Wellfed 14:17:07 04/27/05 (7)

Here's the deal, plain and simple. - Ken Perkins 05:40:43 04/28/05 (6)

Ken I can certainly respect where you would acquire this view... - Wellfed 08:49:14 04/28/05 (5)

Re: Ken I can certainly respect where you would acquire this view... - john curl 10:35:11 04/28/05 (0)

Communcation Breakdown, the sequel.... - Ken Perkins 10:19:13 04/28/05 (1)

Re: Communcation Breakdown, the sequel.... - Wellfed 11:06:43 04/28/05 (0)

Communication breakdown... - jbmcb 09:58:11 04/28/05 (1)

I gave them the benefit of the doubt on many occasions... - Wellfed 10:49:54 04/28/05 (0)

Re: Simple - apesma 14:03:09 04/27/05 (0)

Re: My claim at JREF has been acrimoniously rejected... - john curl 11:10:13 04/27/05 (3)

Thank you John [nt] - Wellfed 13:35:05 04/27/05 (2)

I've just spent a few hours trying to read the whole saga - clifff 08:19:58 04/29/05 (1)

Thanks clifff... - Wellfed 08:37:56 04/29/05 (0)

What lies and deceptions? - jbmcb 08:42:25 04/27/05 (3)

Thanks for the rational response... - Wellfed 13:48:28 04/27/05 (2)

No.. - jbmcb 14:18:55 04/27/05 (1)

Re: No.. - Wellfed 15:26:54 04/27/05 (0)

Still working out the protocol details... - Wellfed 11:03:25 04/26/05 (0)

Re: if this is the new Intelligent chip area, what is status of Amazing Randi million dollar test? (NT) - apesma 11:00:23 04/26/05 (1)

the whole story, thank you (NT) - tunenut 11:16:57 04/26/05 (0)

Follow Ups

Good points - jbmcb 22:45:12 04/27/05 (5)

Re: Good points - Wellfed 23:17:36 04/27/05 (4)

Sorry - jbmcb 07:26:43 04/28/05 (3)

The other "guy"... - Wellfed 09:00:40 04/28/05 (2)

Does she claim... - jbmcb 09:08:46 04/28/05 (1)

She's never seen a GSIC in person... - Wellfed 09:31:22 04/28/05 (0)

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