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RE: That 1.7 review is nonsense

Posted by RGA (R) on March 22, 2012 at 20:00:22

In Reply to: RE: That 1.7 review is nonsense posted by josh358 on March 20, 2012 at 08:47:28:

--- I can't speak to the standards of reviewers. However, these guys do listen to the best equipment made and, really, I don't see many raves of the kind that greeted the 1.7. ---

I also listen to the best equipment made - I disagree with their take on the sound at the show.

---- A brief show encounter doesn't provide all the listening experience a critic would need for a full review, of course, but you were the one who mentioned CES and said the sound of the 1.7 was "mediocre" there. Forex, you mention levels. As I recall, in his review of the 1.7, Jon Valin said that the upper midrange got a bit hard when levels were pushed to extremes. ----

I know John loves them but I disagree with John based on what was presented under show conditions. Not being a diehard panel fan I was not giving them the "benefit of the doubt" because I've heard the brand for 20 years in many different rooms and with different front ends. At the show they didn't play them loud - the didn't play anything difficult and there was zero "magic carpet" realism.

---- You've been to CES so you know how much "also ran" sound you hear their -- often the fault of room acoustics and hurried setup. But not many loudspeakers garner the kind of enthusiastic praise the 1.7 did. ---

Some of the best sound I have ever heard has been under show conditions so I don't buy the "rooms are bad" bit because they're typical of home owner's homes. Built with the same materials. So what is the excuse - hurried set-up - umm they are provided the room dimensions before they go (they get the blue-print). They know the size shape and they can phone ahead to ask about furniture or placement of air conditioners. And again some companies go to these shows and consistently get first rate sound.

"I've found personally that everyone reacts positively to the sound of planars. What's more, in my experience, that isn't generally true of most boxes, because they lack the "magic carpet" quality of being transported into another acoustical space."

We know different people - personally I know of no one that feels that way about them. They all listen to classical music and they all own dynamic speakers. Let's add up all the audiophiles who listen to classical music who have the space for panels and who instead have bought a non-panel shall we? You won't like the numbers. I agree with your comparisons on $2k Maggie and $50k Soundlab - I didn't hear anything remotely good in the Soundlab room at CES either.

And before you say - room acoustics - the King Sounds made my top 5 rooms (under $10k) at CES in the same/similar rooms. And again in a different location with better electronics and my music I was able to get good results from the 1.7. But I didn't get "magic Carpet performance from them - or any panel at any price that I've ever heard - on acoustic umamplified classical or jazz music. The fact they also can't rock or have any dynamics or frequency extension cost a lot require massive (usually SS amps), take up too much space are all just added irritations.

The 1.7 and King Sound Prince/King panels are the only panels I would personally consider owning. The price is low enough - and the performance good enough. Beyond those prices boxed designs walk all over them for any music including classical IMO and IME. Apparently not everyone agrees with me - shudder the thought - but that's fine that's why there are bazillions of loudspeakers on the market.

I never said someone would make Magnepans at half the price. The assertion in this entire thread is that Magnepan doesn't want their ribbon technology stolen. Well they must think someone could steal it and then make it for less money no? Why else would they worry?

They can;t be worried over bad measurments - panels always look terrible in the measurements and then JA will say "we can't measure panels properly" implying that if they could he THINKS they would be ruler flat on and off axis with no phase and zero distortion. I just want to see someone measure them where there can be no excuses.

The only measurement that matters at all is the one at the listening position (at the ear) in room. Some speaker may sound great in a quasi (no room) graph but stink it up when you actually put some real world walls around. Speakers need to be designed to operate in the "typical" living room. How it does in a chamber is irrelevant - Saying - sell sir your room is the typical 8-10 foot ceiling - our speakers suck in those rooms which account for 99.999999% of all rooms on the planet - they only work if the ceiling is 11.234592 feet high and only if they are 3.572392 feet from each side wall and only with a $70,000 4kw Krell on a Tuesday in months with 31 days.

I get real tired of those kinds of products.

I use Audio Note as a counter to the argument.

When a Wes Philips can walk into an Audio Note room and proclaim it as the best listening experience he's ever had in a room they set-up in a day with ZERO acoustic treatments - and probably ZERO in the way of stands in a CES style room then the room can't be used as an excuse I'm sorry to say. Cause that means it sounded better in a CES hotel room than gear he heard previously in dedicated sound rooms in all the years prior.

I have real problems with the silly notions that "if you listen to unamplified classical then it's an automatic panel." No sorry - the first evaluation pieces of music I use is classical and jazz, Indeed the guys who buy Audio Note are primarily classical and Jazz music listeners. They are bought FOR that music. The fact that they don't stink at everything else is a nice bonus.

I don't JUST listen to classical string quartets but that doesn't mean I'm a pop guy. I simply have higher standards and don't want speakers that choose what I can and can't listen to. If I was a mainly rock listener I would not buy Audio Note - others do it louder and bigger and bolder.

And before someone gets on my about Audio Note well this applies for me for other boxed speakers as well. I would rather listen to classical unamplified music on speakers from Usher (Be10), Sony's flagship, Acoustic Zen, Teresonic, Trenner and Freidl, Tannoy, Harbeth, Silbatone, Magico (though not at the price), Linn's flagship and many many others.

And like PG I was initially impressed - when I first heard a panel I was "wowed" - they have an entirely different presentation - if you like it then go for it - but like PG after awhile I have trouble with them.

And some reviewers have directly compared boxes to magnepan (read what Richard Greene (TAS) thinks about comparing the sound of a Piano on Harbeth versus a Magnepan). To me there is absolutely no comparison between them when it comes to reproducing real instruments IMO. Greene didn't point out the fact that the Harbeth 40.1 was 6-7 times the money.

RG
"Of course no speaker sounds exactly like a piano. But the Harbeths
are a lot closer to my ears than the Magneplanars.

"The cumulative spectral-decay plot on the tweeter axis (fig.7) is extremely clean in the tweeter's passband"

"The mid- and high-treble regions, however, appear to have some delayed energy problems"

Did you guess? The former is the Harbeth M40.1 --the speaker that lacks snap according to Tony and does not decay correctly according to MW. The latter is the Magneplanar 1.6"

Further I recently read a review in Stereophile where Brian Damkroger noted that Magnepan's 1.7 could not match the midrange realism of the similarly priced Harbeth P3ESR.

It's not like the Magnepan is any bass or treble champ you buy them for midrange and you now have two reviewers at two magazines that think a boxed speaker has better midrange. In fact you have three because based on what I have heard from Harbeth I would concur.

• http://www.audiophilia.com/wp/?p=5791   (Open in New Window)

Edits: 03/22/12 03/22/12

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