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Wouldn't this be subject to the weakest link theory? Does a few feet of power cord somehow clean up the power from 50 feet of Romex?
Follow Ups:
Hi,
> Wouldn't this be subject to the weakest link theory?
Absolutely. Of course, one must understand what links exist and where they are weak to propound a "weak link" theory.
> Does a few feet of power cord somehow clean up the power
> from 50 feet of Romex?
This is possible, some power cables come with build in filtering.
The key to understanding why mains often can, nay, must make appreciable differences that are both audible and measurable is found in the introduction to what purports to be an interconnect review by Pete Goudreau (He used to contribute at AA, together with Pam, an auld lang syne).
http://www.soundstage.com/articles/pete01.htm
I recommending reading the part about parasitic current loops at least trice to guys who have an EE degree. Those who don't but understand electronic basics can probably manage with one read, everyone else, keep reading until the figurative lightbulb above your head lights up.
You can skip the actual cable review if you like though.
Incidentally, it also explains why excotic mains connectors can, nay must influence sound quality. And a few other things normally considered BS by the engineering community and does so requiring nothing but was is thought in EE101.
Ciao T
Sometimes I'd like to be the water
sometimes shallow, sometimes wild.
Born high in the mountains,
even the seas would be mine.
(Translated from the song "Aus der ferne" by City)
Thanks for the interesting link.
Since the demise of choke input power supplies and 5Y3 rectifiers the path through the rectifiers both coming and going can't be ignored either. Sigh.
Stereo systems are just that, a system and can only be experienced or understood as such. Really comprehending the implications of this both in-band and elsewhere would, I think, greatly decrease the animus displayed by some posters. Sadly what's good for mine may not be for yours...
Rick
Forget about the miles of AC wire between the local power station and your gear; an audiophile power cord intrinsically becomes part of the device that it's connected to -- a part of its power supply.
Research the nature of audiophile power supplies and you may better understand the nature of implementing audiophile power cords to improve/tune component power supplies.
The power cord may be a good electrical resonator as well as conductor for power frequency current and antenna for RF noise. Shielding may make the resonance properties worse.
The power cord should be made of good conductors and insulators. The wall and IEC connectors do not preserve the impedance of the cable, so electrical resonance is possible. A resonator acts as a filter and amplifier for the spectrum of frequencies that correspond to the resonant modes. The more complicated the cable design, the more resonant modes it can support.
Some power cords are designed with materials that damp the electrical resonances.
If the cable was long enough and has sufficient capacitance, you will get hash filtering, and better power transmission to boot. Accrolink 4030 from breaker to components
Works for me.
Jag
hcman
You bring up very good points and truthfully under basic signal of voltage measurement,you won't find a difference.
What they are basically doing with the better cords is,putting a braided shield over the cord and it acts as a shield for RFI and thats what does the trick. I have a 900 dollar MIT power cord I got in some stuff I bought on an insurance deal,with some stuff that was hit by a surge and the cord was brand new and not used in a box. Anyway I got it and a mid price straightwire brand cord that ran 589 when I looked it up.I got less than 70 dollars in both of them when I figured the price.
Anyway I hooked them to different amps I had with IEC plugs and used the standard cord that came with the amps for comparisons. There were differences,but not as big as you would think because I use a balanced power conditioner because I run mostly modded vintage gear.
Anyway I did some investigating and had gone to home depot and got some 10 guage 3 conductor cord and I got 30 feet of braiding for 10 guage wire from an electrical supply house and I got some quality ends on ebay for 30 dollars total.You slip the braiding over the cord and solder one end to the grounding 3rd prong and leave the other side undone that goes into the wall.This is all you need to do and this is the main thing they do in these big expensive cords. I had talked to a guy name Don Resig that worked at one of the cable companies and I got the low down for verification on what they did.You then put heat shrink over the braided wire all the way down of course. I promise,you will not be able to tell the difference in the cords I have that cost big bucks and you can make this cord for about 50 bucks.I ran it without the power conditioner and the biggest difference I found was the nonshielded stock cords were not as quiet so the backgrounds were not as clear.
Anyway,all three cords including the one I made for 50,was as good as the other two and this is on martin logan CLXs and the same results I got with my first octave angel horns.
Now truthfully,a soldered in cord will be much better than any slip on cord because you won't get micro arcing at the plug like you will with an IEC plug. You wrap it,solder it,and thats that. I then put shielding on the power cord from the chassis ground back.
SilClear is something really nice to use on wires and cables especially cords because it fills in valleys in the metal and makes a better conductor.
I live in Saginaw Michigan and if anyone wants to come over and hear the setup,you are welcome to come and we can some music and you can decide.
If the power supply waveform isn't pretty,neither is the sound in most cases.
Edits: 05/07/10
"You slip the braiding over the cord and solder one end to the grounding 3rd prong and leave the other side undone that goes into the wall.This is all you need to do"
This is what you recommend? You realize your telling others to leave the safety ground open at the wall? Do you realize your telling others it is acceptable to be in violation of electrical code because that is what the big boys do? What if someone has a problem and got shocked or has a fire because what you recommended?
I am familiar with protection and shielding of electrical cables and what you are saying is wrong. In industrial signal wiring the device end is left unterminated and taped back. The signal end is run to an earth ground to drain any stray EMF or RF to ground, this is on DC and digital signal not 120V AC. Which happens to be the opposite of what you are saying.
Actually, you are both correct, if I am interpreting what you're saying correctly. The end of the shield that is *usually* directly grounded is the source end. Which is at the plug end for AC. And at the preamp end if going to an amp, or at the player end if going to a pre, etc. This is typical SOP, but not guaranteed to be best in all cases.
Your ground is already hooked up in the amp thru the 3rd prong ground that is already there. All this shield does is go to the chassis basically and along the cord like an antenna.You are not leaving anything open or violating code. All this is is a braided shield that goes around the outer insulated cord,capiche?? You then cover that.
If the power supply waveform isn't pretty,neither is the sound in most cases.
That's what I did for an 83803 based cord I use for my preamp. Here's a visual to help out. All three conductors are live.
While you may debate the value, many aftermarket cords use higher quality connectors and something other than standard copper that necessarily cost more. Nice Wattgate or Furutech plugs / IEC jacks will set you back $100-$150 alone. The Harmonic Technology Magics use six nines silver wire for the hot and neutral wires. That's why they cost more than fifty bucks. :)
rw
Actually Rw
you are the one that gave me the idea how to do this and I did this to my citation 2 amps over the cords. You and I used to have cord discussions and being you have Soundlabs ESLs,I know you have revealing equipment just as I do with the CLXs. This is what made me investigate it.
If the power supply waveform isn't pretty,neither is the sound in most cases.
way to accomplish what the boutique guys charge big bucks for.
You may be able to duplicate the bottom/lower tiered PC's in most cable manufacturers line-up but when you get up into the top tier cables, this is where one starts to hear vast performance improvements.I can assure you, one will NOT be able to duplicate what Synergistic Research is doing in their active shielding Tesla line of PC's or what AudioQuest is doing in their DBS WEL PC. I would also have to say that trying to copy/build an Elrod Statement Gold PC, for example, would be damn near impossible without the proper equipment that most DIY's cannot afford, and that includes the cold-welds used on the AQ cables, not to mention the talent and time it takes to build one of these PC's!!
I've toured a very prominant high end cable manufacturing facility and I can assure you, it takes great talent, time, and the proper equipment to build a top tier cable. If one wants to just "assemble" a damn fine high performance PC that only requires wire strippers and a screwdriver, get some Acrolink P-4030 cable and terminate the ends with one of the Oyaide and/or Furutech male/female connectors of choice and blow most bottom/lower tiered PC's clear out of the water but be prepared for a LONG break-in period!
And we haven't even begun to talk about high end outlets... bwahahaha :-)
~
Edits: 05/08/10
You may be able to duplicate the bottom/lower tiered PC's in most cable manufacturers line-up but when you get up into the top tier cables, this is where one starts to hear vast performance improvements.
I don't buy that for that for one solitary minute. You only have so much you can do with that cord as far as shielding noise and then you have the weakness of IEC input plug going into your amp. Those aren't any better than the average garden variety plugs.You would have to change that insert plug because now thats a weaker link of the two and thats why you will be limited no matter how good you think that cord is.I thought the same you did and I think 1100 dollar cord isn't bottom line cord.
When you want to make real improvements in gear,you have to go inside the unit and mod the power supply.Look at any of these places that do modifications and see how many change AC cords and see how many go inside the unit to make improvements. Your AC cord is only as good as your weakest link and thats a given. I have done enough equipment rebuilding and modding and using real measurements to see whats going on. Your better AC cords are filtering RFI and you can only do so much with a cord. I would much rather have a cord that wraps around and solders to the primary windings of the power transformer than to have something that slips on over an IEC plug in a half ass way.
Now a good balanced power conditioner along with a good 10 guage cord thats shielded,will be really nice. We weren't talking about a PC cord. RW and I were talking about a 10 guage 3 conductor cord with braided shielding and wrap.
Its sort of like these IC's where they put these matching transformers on them from making the wires so thick so they will work. I find more and more people using the smaller cords because higher frequencies always travel better on smaller wire.I will admit that bass energy may appear a little stronger with inner links that are as big as a cobra snake however,you have other issues with thick IC so it becomes a tradeoff.
If the power supply waveform isn't pretty,neither is the sound in most cases.
Edits: 05/08/10
You may not buy it but hearing one of SR's Tesla power cords with active shielding connected and then disconnected is NOT subtle in the least, even on a stock IEC inlet such as is implemented on my Mac MC275 mk IV. On my Pass Labs Aleph 3 amp, I did change the IEC inlet for a cryo'd Furutech FI-10 and changed the wiring from the IEC inlet with 10 gauge silver teflon coated wire over to the transformer and the differences in the active shielding when connected/disconnected were even more pronounced!!I'm not sure what SR is doing exactly or how they are implementing the active shielding inside the power cord, and they are not divulging the info, but the truth is in the details and the active shielding is easily heard as a substantial improvement in low level detail and background noise elimination. I also use high current balanced power in my main rig and even there, the SR cables are a huge step above in detail retrieval, bass agility and low level noise reduction than well made non-shielded or shielded cables.
Also if I may, riddle me this? In theory, a true AC regenerator should not be affected in the least by the quality of the power cord used as it regenerates perfect AC but on my PS Audio P-600, which I've changed the IEC inlet to an FI-10 and changed the wiring from the IEC inlet over to the EMI/RF filter and then to the main PCB with the same wire used in the Aleph 3, using different power cords is easily heard with stock molded non-shielded, and even the stock shielded cable supplied with the P-600, sounding the worst of all the cables tried.
The most articulated, quiet and musical was a power cord made with Oyaide Tsunami cable with Oyaide P/C-046 connectors."We weren't talking about a PC cord. RW and I were talking about a 10 guage 3 conductor cord with braided shielding and wrap."
I think you're confusing my term of "PC" with Personal computer, I am using it in an abreviation for Power Cord if I understand your sentence there correctly.
~
Edits: 05/08/10
Kenster
Im glad you cleared much of this up.I did think you meant PC because thats the term we commonly associate with personal computer. I have much of same equipment you do only my mc275 of course is the vintage one but I upgraded all the components to with unilytic poly filter caps and russian k40s and vit qs and then I have a couple power conditioners and one is a Sola. It puts out a perfect sine wave but its so noisy from the huge transformer that I had to bury it and then run cables in. It came from the college I used to teach at and they gave it to me.
I also have a panamax I run my C20 preamp on that as well as my cit one preamp and all my turntables. I also got another one for work bench and thats a story I will tell you about when we have some time. It was a lifesaver is all I can say.
If the power supply waveform isn't pretty,neither is the sound in most cases.
I shall quote my colleague Andrej Persin (apologize for "google" translation):
"The impact of the power cable is, as far as I understand, that the power cord acts as an antenna. Indeed, the electric current flows in cable "impulsely" (because so are the capacitors in the audio devices loaded). For this reason, a certain magnetic field is created around the cable. Cables from power station have nothing to do here, the important is only the part closest to the audio device. The biggest source of disturbance is an audio device itself with the way sipping current. If the device itself consumes nothing, there are no power cord disorders. Therefore, the various generators of clean electricity are completely bosh (provided that we have guaranteed voltage in the power socket). So, cable emits magnetic field in the form of heavily distorted 50Hz sine with accentuated odd harmonics. This magnetic field then affects the magnetic fields of audio cables and other equipment, and the sound, which is modulated by this power supply disorder, changed character. So, theoretically, it is quite possible that the cables with a different thickness and spacing of conductors, because of the forms of magnetic field around the cable, affect the audio devices differently. As for me, a solution is not in the best materials in the form of silver conductors and gold wire outlets, because they do not only reduce the detrimental effect on sound. The only sensible solution is shell for power cables, the best when made from sheet iron."
Brzi
Thats an excellent explanation that you gave and it makes perfect sense. The thing is also,if it weren't for all the interference from digital communications on the line,there wouldn't be as much need for the perfect shielding because thats basically what we are shielding from,which is digital communications and magnetic fields as you had mentioned.
Now, here would come another point of dismay and contradiction for most. Lets say you create the finest and purest AC cord you can make or find. Once you you go beyond the point of the power cord, you are inside the amp such as a tube amp that has three transformers and maybe a choke or two underneath. Surely,the iron will create a magnetic field and that in turn will no doubt affect sonic behavior. This is why I have been using MU metal for shielding on some transformers.
If the power supply waveform isn't pretty,neither is the sound in most cases.
Along with the EMI screening properties of the shielded cable, maybe the correct question should be why same metals, implemented in different ways, in outlets/plugs/wires etc., cryo and not-treated identical parts sound different ?
Here are a few simple, straightforward explanations in layman's terms..
One of the fundamental reasons any decently designed after-market power cord can make a difference is that noise generated and shared within interconnected systems poses a far greater challenge to resolution and fidelity than externally generated AC interference. Just as it is within electronics themselves, the laws of proximity rule when it comes to the effective treatment of radiated and power supply generated noise.
Power cords are designed to act as sympathetic, noise-isolated extensions of the primary winding within a component’s power supply. Seen this way, their function takes on a more understandable role. They represent the initial outward electrical interface for each piece of electronics in the system. That raw wire interface can either act as an antenna for radiated HF and ground-borne noise or it can be engineered to isolate the power-supply port from internal and external EMI, RFI interference.
There is no such thing as a power supply that is adequate to filtering or isolating itself entirely from the huge volume of gigahertz noise that surrounds electronics systems and comes from within them. The bigger and more powerful the system, typically the larger the problem an unshielded or unprotected AC port can become. That is not to say electronics systems cannot sound great without after-market cords, or that tons of money must be spent on them, it's just to say that there is real-world science that explains why that they "can and most often do make an easy to hear difference or improvement in recorded or reproduced sound".
In general, power cords do not represent the last few feet of an AC grid leading to a component; they are first few feet from the perspective of each component’s power supply. Due to the fact that your AC is in principle the_source_ of sound for any music or sound system--AC rectified to DC which carries the signal through the system--it would seem imprudent to ignore the possibility of a difference and not perform the simplest of empirical experiments for oneself.
Regards,
Grant
See:
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/cables/messages/82423.html
and all the referenced URL's in that post.
In that post, I address one of the issues that make your statement: "If all house wiring is of a given quality...." a bit of a red herring.
All house wiring is NOT of a given quality, as many who have created a dedicated run have found out.
In that post I write: "...how many wall outlet push-in connectors it has passed through on the way to your audio system wall outlet."
It was (and still is) common practice for house wiring to be strung from one outlet to another, using the outlet as a junction box each time the AC power run is daisy-chained along to the next outlet.
Instead of a nice solid piece of unbroken wire, we now have multiple dissimilar metal junctions. In one of my previous homes, the outlet where I wanted to plug my system into went through 4 outlets, using just the push-in terminals one the backs of the duplex outlets.
In my current home, the desired outlet had three before it, so I ran a dedicated homerun back to the panel, with it's own new breaker.
In my original post on AC cords, at:
http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/cables/messages/13538.html
I cover peak currents, proximity to other cables and line cords with regards to shielding and EMI/RFI, as well as other aspects, and includes some actual real world measurements.
In this post:
http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/general/messages/188129.html
I cover AC cord plugs and contacts, and how weak the cheap ones are compared to the industrial strength kind.
This URL:
http://www.thuneau.com/MPC/
is now here:
http://www.thuneau.com/MPC/magic_power_cord.htm
The URL for AC Power artifacts getting past a DVD power supply was incorrect, and I can not now find the original URL I saved.
In addition to straight ahead AC power cord issues, there are also the "incidental" kinds of issues, such as ground loops and the resulting hum, which is actually more of an equipment problem, BUT travels through the AC power cord ground wires (or in the case of two-prong cords, the Neutral wire).
SEE:
Minimizing AC Power Leakage Currents, OR How to Orient Your Two-prong Non-polarized AC Plugs:
http://www.AudioAsylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/36909.html
I too had a URL link to Ole's post that E-stat referenced, so you have already been directed there.
Hopefully, some of the content of these posts will give you something to think about with regard to power cords.
BTW, one of the more common tacks is to cite the audio components Power Supply, as if it were some kind of magic brick wall filter for the AC line garbage and noise. Unfortunately, even SOTA Power Supplies can not act as a magic brick wall filter, much less the kind of Power Supply designed to a price point, much less a budget price point, where all they hope for is to pass UL and not burn down your house. Period.
Thus, the Power Supply as a magic filter is also a red herring, not to be taken seriously.
Jon Risch
I hate connectors of all kinds and it only makes sense to me that it may well be the biggest advantage of the dedicated line is that it is as direct as you can get.
I have long wondered if half of the "magic" of the exotic cables is that they (somehow) ameliorate/compensate (?) for the ill effects (filtering?) of the connectors.
I do know that eliminating ANY connector with a simple solder connection always yields an improvement and not a subtle one. Not for those who must change their gear around, I find when one eliminates these forms of interference they are not as interested in buying new gear. Could it be that it allows some audio peace as Herb Reichert would say?
I think so.
nt
It's NOT the last six feet.
To the component, it's the FIRST six feet.
Best regards,
Jim Smith
than a six foot one?
I know this stuff can make a difference but it does seem too much too mysterious.
Of course, if I could find a way to make a marketable one thousand dollars power cord I would, too.
One would have to figure that there is some kind of beneficial/euphonic filtering done in the best of the power cords. One wishes someone could find a way to get the effect for much less money!
I don't buy into the "miles and miles of outside wire" argument. Absent storm conditions, or living next to a steel mill, most household utility drops are pretty stable, measuring second to second, with peak and off peak sags aggregated into more gentle changes over time. Around here, there is at least 400 amps available up to the meter. What comes into the house (200 amps) is pretty good AC 99% of the time.
But there are local disturbances, such as other devices on the same circuit, that can mess with the wall mains delivery in a more meaningful way. Sharp local sags and noise are typical. Certain lamps and appliances are nasty to shared devices. Or a grossly overloaded entrance panel, where the whole house sags every time the HVAC kicks on. That DOES affect sonics, unless it is effectively managed.
A noise free and regulated mains delivery is the ideal. Some folks use power conditioners for that. I like conditioners on anything digital or containing less robust electronics. I've seen storms take out those electronics, even when they're off. I don't like conditioners upstream of power amps, as I find they constrain current delivery at times.
My experience is that a DEDICATED CIRCUIT to the system (or to the amp alone) makes FAR more impact than any individual power cord change can. Not having an overloaded main entrance panel helps a lot, too.
I don't think a fancy power cord makes much difference, unless it's plugged into a pre-conditioned supply. Even then, I only look for one to avoid prevent current bottlenecks on a particularly hungry device, and maybe keep out very local interference.
But don't ever expect a $400 power cord to remedy bad house wiring.
the first thing a Good aftermarket PC does is not strangle the power coming out of the wall by being 14awg or larger, that also lowers the impedance of the connected load. The good PC also acts as a noise filter by twisting the conductors or including a filter network. A good PC also acts like an anti-antennae by not picking up or radiating RF. All these things and more are hallmarks of a good PC and they make your gear sound better than the crappy, unshielded, undersized cords that come with most gear. On the other hand, they are probably the least effective upgrade you can make especially from a power stand point. The best power upgrade is a dedicated circuit or 2 directly routed to your gear. There is a whole nuther list of reasons why that works so well.
"E pur si muove...And yet it moves"
Thanks. BTW, I'm in the early stages, just finished the foundation, of a new home. I'll be using dedicated circuits for for my gear.
I'll be using dedicated circuits for my gear.
When you see the electrician ask him if your city's AHJ (authority having jurisdiction) adopted the 2008 NEC code regarding the use of AFCI (arc fault circuit interrupter) breakers and Tamper Resistant child safety receptacles.....
Did you spec an electrical panel with copper bus bars and not aluminum?
Jim
good points/?'s, depending on where you live and the AHJ, you might not have to use AFI's. I would not want them on my AV ckts. Copper bus in a resi panel would be great but would be hard to get. Probably have to spec a commercial panel and pay the slight difference. Not sure it would make any audible difference and then there is the service entrance cable and cable from load side of meter to the panel. My house is AL from utility xfmr to the line side of the branch breakers. But installing 10/2 wG CU romex from the breaker to my gear made a big difference. Remember, no splices, no daisy chaining recepts, continuous home run from the breaker in the panel to the recept you plug your gear or power filter into.
"E pur si muove...And yet it moves"
Square D QO Load Centers have copper bus. Also you can get Cutler Hammer with copper bus.
Pretty much in all cases aluminum wire from the utility to the meter socket. The customer can spec copper from the load side of meter socket to the main breaker.
unless the packaging specifically says copper or has CU in the cat #, it may or may not be copper. Low end residential panels don't even give you the option and the mfr puts in what ever is cheaper on the commodities market at a given time.
"E pur si muove...And yet it moves"
Best answer I've heard
And yes, I agree. I have three separate lines going to my listening room and I find benefit with using aftermarket cords.
rw
The waveform in A/C is something anyone can imagine (even wrong doesn't matter) The waveform is all coarse and 'smeared' from the crappy Romex, cheap copper, impurities in the copper, poor quality insulation.. The waveform has all sorts of 'extra frequencies in it. very irregular.
Then the A/C waveform hits the "CORD" the properties of the CORD begin to smooth the waveform, bring it back into one solid form, the ragged edges removed. The spurious frequencies reduced.
THIS is what I see power conditioners, and cords doing.
Some do a better job. Some seem to cut away the crap, but leave the power waveform 'thin' and thus the sound thin. Some of the 'voicing' of equipment depends on a 'fat' sloppy waveform. So those components sound bad with PCs and conditioners. Some components do not depend for voicing on fat waveforms, and benefit from cords more. Some CORDS, seem to be able to 'plump up' the waveform back into a single wave, without strangling it, or thinning it out.. these are the better cords.
This is my theory.
I you want to accept my theory, you must repeat many times, loudly, (and faster is better, and in front of your spouse better still):
"OWA TAGOO SIAM".
Enlightenment will soon follow.
Never-the-less, this is my theory, and i believe it to be true.
..
Easy to dismiss, hard to actually rebut in some meaningful way.
I bought a few entry level PS Audio powercords because they are so well made. Better electrical contacts and a bit of conditioning (shielding, isolation, and filtration) are the benefits. But I would hesitate to spend more than $100 on a powercord or any other cable for that matter.
nt
.
What really matters is whether it does or doesn't improve things. I have a dedicated circuit for my hifi, a Shunyata Hydra 6, a Python power cord from the audiophile-grade outlet to the Hydra, and I found found that recently upgrading from a decent cord feeding my phono stage to another Python made a significant improvement. I don't know the science behind it, but it made improvements to the vinyl playback.
Probably answered too.
It's not difficult to understand the nature of the Cable Asylum Mission Statement, if folks wish to do so:
I have seen the results.. NOT pretty. The folks just work themselves up into a tizzy, never listening to the other side.
i would guess it is a sort of 'religious' question: you either have the 'faith' or not. Everyone with a 'different' faith is the devil. So the naysayers of "A wire is just a wire" camp, and the believers of: 'every wire is different': went at it hammer and tongs pounding on theanvil.. until a truce was declared: no arguements allowed. Thus the Roman PAX over there. Seems on the surface to be silly, but it has a good reason behind it.
efficacy of cables is not allowed.
That's the one area of the asylum where the name asylum is most fitting.
.
You pretty much cannot question the validity of any statement made over there.
pretty much the same impression I got. Any chance of them finding us here, Vinyl Asylum, questioning their aversion to questioning?
It's based on the same hominid Cerebellum design characteristic that allows my motorcycles to magically gain all manner of improved performance from a few hours spent detailing them.
If we believe it's going to sound better it IS invariably going to sound better.
The individual that sincerely believes the sound has improved, it has improved, perception is everything, an ounce of image exceeds a ton of actuality.
And it's a win / win situation all around the individual that spent the money believes he's improved his system enjoys it all that much more, and the folks that sell the stuff derive the benefit of increased cash flow.
It's fairly easy to do blind tests with cables and wires and I'd advise anyone considering expensive cables/interconnects/wires to do so.
The bottom line here is that there is a chance that the most expensive product comes out on top in any particular situation.
On the other hand if someone simply wants to believe the more expensive product actually sounds better that's fine too.
.
Breaking out the bong will only make the effects of AC cables more obvious, however. But why are you guys so angry about it?
Fred, admittedly there is always the problem of bias except when one does a true double-blind controlled evaluation, which is almost never the case, but for me the fact that AC cables can make the sound worse, as well as better, is evidence enough that there is something to it. No one is saying (or at least I am not saying) that you have to spend a lot of money on cables to hear the differences among them. I would also grant that differences are not as profound as the typical audio reviewer would have us believe, at least IME.
Because the buzz is only temporary where the placebo effect of spending $$$$ can last for many years, the more you spent the deeper you had to dig then obviously whatever it was you spent it on is the best yet.
Listen for yourself. Do blind listening tests and if you can convince yourself the more expensive PC is better and worth it go for it.
It's possible for me to list a variety of influences that a power cord could have on the sound of the system. Most of these, IMO, speak to a less than ideal component design, but no matter. In fact others might suggest some unknown physical properties are influencing our listening experiences.
Who knows for sure and the possiblity of us audiophiles knowing for sure what's actually influencing what we hear is not often likely and even if so where does the responsibility actually lay.
But why bother? There's a variety of listening methodologies around that should suffice in convincing one on whether one PC is preferable to another.
I've never upgraded a power cord but have often noted the small gauge of many power cords. I understand the potential in using a power cord equal in quality to the Romex that preceded it. What I don't understand is how a power cord of greater gauge or quality, than the house wiring itself, can improve the current after it has been carried by a given length of Romex.
One simple explanation is that a power cord, and I suppose internal home wiring as well, can act as an antenae. A power cord can provide some filtering of unwanted RF and or additional isolation from it.
I have tried various PCs and have noted differences in the sound of the components I had connected to them.
I know you are asking for the why or the how! I am asking you why? Surely someone will can tell you what you want to hear, if you want to hear it, but the chance of that being really correct and comprehensively accurate are going to be quite small.
Your first paragraph seems like one possible explanation. I know little about filtering RF. There may be a way a power cord can accomplish isolation from RF.
Materials, connectors and construction can be such that they inhibit a power cords ability to respond to changes in current demand.The reason I ask you why is because as audiophiles we don't need to know why and in all reality what we know or believe is going to be highly questionable in fact.
All we really need to know is if we consider the sonic differences heard as being improvements in our system.
Whatever conclusion we reach is a solution particular to our own application not one that we should expect to be repeatable in other situations.
We may believe the cord or wire we buy sounds better because it's silver or rejects EMI or whatever but the truth of the matter is that it might actually sound better because of construction or connector type. In fact it might actually sound better because it allows some degree of distortion instead of inhibiting it.
My point here is that stereo itself is a fairly fuzzy notion in the first place - there's no reason at all to consider that something has to be objectively bettter in order to improve our subjective take on performance.
We don't have to burden ourselves with the technology, which for all practical purposes is indistinquishable from marketing literature.
We need to learn how to trust our ears.
Edits: 05/06/10
What is most curious about Don's post is the admission that he heard a difference. He is so stuck on the laws of electrical engineering that he cannot consider your question and instead distrusts his own ears. I guess he thinks that had he done a blind experiment he would not have heard any difference and refuses to consider that many blind tests are invalid in that they are not the way we listen to music.
"I guess he thinks that had he done a blind experiment he would not have heard any difference and refuses to consider that many blind tests are invalid in that they are not the way we listen to music."
Why would I, much less anyone else, care about what you guess that I think? First of all you're a pretty poor guesser and that's enough to bring into question your thinking and reading ability as well.
a
burp
It's probably no different than using a high quality interconnect cable. How many amps/preamps have super expensive wiring inside? I could argue that that is the weakest link in the chain.
or home-made power cords. The guys who posted below are trying to make fun of the whole idea, because of the potential (and stupid silly) cost, but sadly it is true that one can hear differences among power cords. The good news is that it is NOT necessary, IMO, to spend lots of $ to produce a positive effect. I certainly am not willing to go that route, either. But this is the TubeDIY Asylum, so DIY, baby. For example, old speaker wire often makes a very good power cord. The important thing is to have lots of conductor so there is no limit on current-carrying capacity, again IMO. Yes, it defies logic. But try it yourself.
Agreed. Both that power cords affect sound quality and it is not necessary to spend huge amounts of money to get fairly significant improvements.
I've experimented with a number of power cords in the past, both DIY and cords with retail prices up into the $500 mark (notice I didn't say that I paid that much for them).
The cords I use now are DIY using Marinco male and female connectors and DH Labs raw cable which can be purchased for about $6 a foot. So a cord can be constructed for less than $75. They've also been cryoed, which, if you have local access to a cryo vendor, is one of the cheapest and most effective tweaks you can look at IMO with cabling and receptacles (yeah, they can affect sound quality too and yes, you can also obtain fairly significant increases in sound quality at reasonable prices without ponying up for the "audiophile approved" receptacles carrying much heavier price tags). Those that smirk at cryo usually have no experience with it and absolutely no understanding of it.
It's truly ironic, for example, that those that joke about cryo most often fall in the "science rules" camp but are ignorant of the fact that cryo does indeed change molecular structure resulting in measurable changes particularly relating to resistance. Aren't those science guys also the ones that say "if it measures differently it must (or at least be capable of) sound different"?
But still...
treated conductors, plus the high quality specially treated connectors and hand assembly. The cables allow only the good electrons to flow to your equipment and are time aligned to further enhance the performance of your rig.
All of this adds to your enjoyment as well as to the bank accounts of those who sold you the cables.
In short...its PFM.
Ed
All things being equal.
.
...can have a very significant affect on the sound as many have found.
thereby being the "weakest link". It seems redundant for that same cord to be of higher quality than the preceding length of Romex that delivered the power to the receptacle.
After all their is 50', 100' or 150' of Romax between the circuit breaker and the wall socket.
Here is the inside of a 30 amp circuit breaker. You should see the size of the wiring in your pole transformer. The unit that convert 12,500 volts down to 110 volt 200 amp's. Well actually 2 110 volt lines with a common return. If all that wiring hasn't already picked up RFI why should a 5 or 6 foot cable do so. OH I know. That other wire is protected by sheetrock.
Common sense and logic seem to be foreign concepts to guys who'd pay megabuck$ for a power cord. But maybe they know something I don't?
What about guys (and Elizabeth) who don't pay megabucks for a power cord. Or make their own.
And why do skeptics always immediately jump to a ridiculously subjective field (psychology) to answer their 'objective' questions. Makes no sense.
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