High Efficiency Speaker Asylum

"as you are claiming to be an expert"

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castironandtubes

In Reply to: RE: Just for Dave posted by Neff on November 24, 2008 at 20:16:24

Please support this statement, you've made it twice.
Dave

Edits: 11/24/08

Follow Ups:

RE: "as you are claiming to be an expert" - Neff 14:12:34 11/25/08 (6)
I am an expert on 12AU7's. The tube is not a top performer. As for vintage equipment & factory build, I am very good at upgrading the factory performance with a few exceptions. I would not modify McIntosh, but would repair it as close to as possible to factory design & appearance. In fairness regarding the original components, high-end did not have availibility of some, repeat some of the high quality parts available today.

And you Dave? You mentioned Scott, Eico, Fisher, etc. Please explain the design attributes and deficiencies you have apparently noted including the various tubes used in the designs. Comments on the factory audio iron would be interesting as well.
- There you go again - castironandtubes 15:10:11 11/25/08 (5)
  "design attributes and deficiencies you have apparently noted including the various tubes used in the designs"
  
  Putting words in my mouth, apparently because without doing so you have little to say.
  
  My point is simple, hopefully someone with your vast experience could comprehend it. Your thoughts on good sound are your opinion just as anybody else's are. Your idea of "upgrading factory performance" is exactly that, your idea of it. Maybe not mine and quite likely not that of the original designer (or of many others). The suggestion that your opinion is correct and that those whose opinion differs haven't heard "quality sound" is ridiculous. I'm very surprised that in all that experience you have failed to realize something as fundamental as that.
  
  Dave
  - No, there You go again - Neff 17:13:01 11/25/08 (4)
    You have a strong opinion. I want to read about your conclusion of this 12AU7 tube family and I suspect others are getting more interested too although not the question I originally asked about Klipsch speakers.
    
    So, share your experiences you are telling me and to others here at AA. I am also interested in your reference regarding vintage amplifier designers chosing the 12AU7 for superior sonics. I have not dismissed your opinion, but it does appear your are dismissing my opinion and absolutely my original post.
    
    I ask 'what various tubes in the 12AU7 tube types you are familiar with in home entertainment amplifiers'? How do you compare to other similar types?
    
    As for your reference to what I preceive is good sound is and has been only my opinion. I find you are trying to change the subject again or 'there You go again'.
    
    You missed the direction my original post. I do not seek the sonics of the 12AU7. Others may identify with that and help me carefully chose a speaker system based on their experiences with that tube. I am reading with great interest Timbo in Oz's reply.
    
    Your posts have nothing to do with my original question regarding Klipsch speakers, but answer the questions now that you assumed the position of an authority on 12AU7 tubes. I simply stated I do not care for them.
    - "I simply stated I do not care for them." - castironandtubes 17:59:06 11/25/08 (3)
      No you didn't, not in the post that I replied to anyway.
      I've quoted you several times, but one last time-
      "That person's reply advised 12AU7s are great. So, they don't own quality to be able to reply with any accuracy."
      I have no problem with your opinion and I am not dismissing it. I have a problem with the suggestion that your opinion represents "quality" and differing opinions mean people "don't own quality". It's that simple (yet you don't seem to get it yet).
      My reference was to vintage and modern amplifier designers that chose/choose to use 12au7's. I'm sure in your vast experience you know which models I am referring to. If your contention is that they chose/choose the 12au7 because they agree with you that it is categorically a bad tube but want bad sound in their products, please feel free to support that. Otherwise it's fair to assume that they have a different view than you.
      Okay, time for you to change the subject and/or suggest that I'm saying something different again...
      Dave
      My original post, perhaps you should read it again (Open in New Window)
      Edits: 11/25/08 11/25/08
      - Ya sure - Neff 20:39:15 11/25/08 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "I simply stated I do not care for them." posted by castironandtubes on November 25, 2008 at 17:59:06
        
        12AU7's in the signal path will not represent what I am seeking to hear thru the speakers. So, why would I use that 12AU7 post as a reference?
        
        I do not consider 12AU7's the ultimate performer as the tube performs with slight smearing of the audio- more so in very common RC coupling, less so in not so common cathode follower. Some call it warm sounding. Not so great in a home entertainment amplifier & especially so for voice. I like to hear accurate & clear open sonics with being musical at the same time. This does not dismiss others do not like 12AU7s and if they hear greatness, I am pleased they are in high spirits. I seek a different direction with my experience.
        
        I have performed A/B tests with five listeners over the years in different amplifiers. All reported the 12AU7 from various manufactures was veiled vs the E80CC. Same with a few 6SN7's with an octal to 9-pin adapter. That is interesting, but I do not normally post findings like that. Kind of unscientific, you think? The 12AU7 tube was in part developed for Collins Radio back in about 1946-47. It is interesting Collins Radio requested RCA to improve the tube for lower distortion and that resulted in the 5814 tube. But, whatever. Perhaps the Collins engineer was wrong along with RCA as applied in certain audio amplifiers.
        
        You still have not explained why you think the 12AU7 is a high quality tube as applied by vintage amplifier designers with 'high credibility'. That is because you can not explain it and apparently have not established other points of reference. For you to apparently suggest establishing a point of reference that can serve the many is impossible is rediculous.
        
        How about your credibility sir.
        
        RE: Ya sure - castironandtubes 22:40:10 11/25/08 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Ya sure posted by Neff on November 25, 2008 at 20:39:15
        
        "You still have not explained why you think the 12AU7 is a high quality tube as applied by vintage amplifier designers with 'high credibility'. That is because you can not explain it and apparently have not established other points of reference. For you to apparently suggest establishing a point of reference that can serve the many is impossible is rediculous."
        There have been and still are plenty of highly successful designs using the 12au7, produced by people with, yep, higher credibility than you. I'm not suggesting you lack it, I'm just pointing out the obvious. I'm not going to make a list, I know you know what they are. They did/do not make those designs while holding the opinion you describe of the 12au7. Therefore a contrary opinion does exist, and in fact enjoys a wide acceptance based on the successes of those designs. Are you going to dispute that?
        Dave
        
        Edits: 11/25/08
        
        RE: Ya sure - Neff 06:11:38 11/26/08 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Ya sure posted by castironandtubes on November 25, 2008 at 22:40:10
        
        Contrary opinions are what helps makes the world a better place.

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