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Best $500 & Under Tube Phono Stage

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Posted on August 30, 2014 at 06:40:29
tubav
Audiophile

Posts: 558
Joined: March 21, 2009
 Looking for suggestions on a tube phono stage for $500 and under.
I know that kind of limits me.
Using solid state now with lots of woofer pumping.
An electronics buddy of mine said that tube stages have caps which limit
extreme low end thereby helping with woofer pumping.
The Hagerman Cornet 3 looks like a possibility.
Any others?
Thanks for any and all suggestions.
System is:
Heathkit W3M's
Bottlehead preamp
Paradigm 3seMkIII

 

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RE: Best $500 & Under Tube Phono Stage, posted on August 30, 2014 at 07:47:26
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 24045
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 Well, I haven't heard anywhere close to all of them, but my vote goes to my Yaqin MS-22B, which has now been replace by the MS-23B. It costs less than $200 and I would put it up for the best $500 phono stage I've ever heard. I'm using it in conjunction with a Bob's Devices 1131 SUT because I listen to moving coils and this combination sounds nearly as good as my $4200 Pass Labs XOno. After buying the Yaqin MS-22B, I quit looking for a better low-cost phono stage for my SL-1200 Mk2. It satisfies me completely.

Best regards,
John Elison

 

Since you already have a Bottlehead preamp, posted on August 30, 2014 at 08:15:59
Paully
Audiophile

Posts: 5911
Location: West Virginia
Joined: February 15, 2004
 Why not get the Reduction?

 

RE: Best $500 & Under Tube Phono Stage, posted on August 30, 2014 at 08:27:58
AudioSoul
Audiophile

Posts: 4594
Location: north central AZ
Joined: July 9, 2005
If you can go $100 more, Musical Paradise came out with a MM/MC phono stage that is a combination tube/fet gain stages. It is new so there are only a couple of reviews out there but they are very positive. The model #is MP-P1. I am looking @ that one myself....

 

RE: Best $500 & Under Tube Phono Stage, posted on August 30, 2014 at 10:00:55
Theron D
Audiophile

Posts: 790
Location: Maryland
Joined: June 21, 2004
 Very interesting John. I have a Luxman L505u integrated (all SS) and have been thining about getting an external tube phono pre. I have a SL1200 KAB upgrades like you and this looks interesting. THanks for the input, might have to do some research now..

best
-Theron Day

 

RE: Best $500 & Under Tube Phono Stage, posted on August 30, 2014 at 11:12:06
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 24045
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 Well, you can't go too wrong since the price is less than $200. If you buy one I hope you like yours as well as I like mine.

Good luck,
John Elison

 

RE: Best $500 & Under Tube Phono Stage, posted on August 30, 2014 at 12:28:52
AudioSoul
Audiophile

Posts: 4594
Location: north central AZ
Joined: July 9, 2005
John, have you rolled any tubes in yours?

 

RE: Best $500 & Under Tube Phono Stage, posted on August 30, 2014 at 12:49:42
ChesshireCat
Audiophile

Posts: 1672
Location: midwest
Joined: July 5, 2007
 look around for a used Wright WP100. Not eye candy, but the sound is ear candy
gary
Gary

 

RE: Best $500 & Under Tube Phono Stage, posted on August 30, 2014 at 13:27:04
coffee-phil
Audiophile

Posts: 1444
Location: Shingle Springs CA
Joined: January 7, 2010
 That looks like a very impressive phono stage for the money. From the tube lineup and description it appears to be the classic tube preamp we know and love from the '60s. The packaging is very impressive.

I would like to see a head to head comparison with the Little Bear tube phono stage. The Little Bear has three tube stages, the last being a cathode follower. It is somewhat less expensive no doubt due to it's more modest packaging. Some assembly is required with the Little Bear, and the care in lead dress will effect hum. The Little Bear has sort of a funky breadboard look which kind of appeals to me but surely won't be for everyone. It has it's devotees over at Vinylengine.

Phil

 

RE: Best $500 & Under Tube Phono Stage, posted on August 30, 2014 at 14:00:16
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 24045
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 No! I am completely satisfied with the tubes it came with. All my other components are solid state so I don't have a stash of tubes around to pick from. I just wanted a cheap phono stage and I took a chance on the Yaqin. I was impressed with it immediately and I just kept listening. So far, I still like it just as much if not more than when I first bought it.

Best regards,
John Elison

 

My Musical Paradise MP-P1 only keeps getting better...., posted on August 30, 2014 at 15:18:34
Cougar
Audiophile

Posts: 4710
Location: SoCal
Joined: June 25, 2001
 and it only has around 40hrs on it now! Very nice non fatiguing detailed sound. Has dynamics and with good defined bass and nice extended high that are not harsh at all. The soundstage is wide and deep with layers between the musicians. Horns, strings, and vocals all sound wonderful! Not bad for $599!

What I can't believe is that this will only get better with more break in time.

This preamp was a very good match with my Shelter 901 cartridge.

I will post back with more when it's all broken in.

My Buddy from Seattle is really wanting to pick this phono preamp up after he heard how much I like it.

More later on it!


 

RE: Best $500 & Under Tube Phono Stage, posted on August 30, 2014 at 17:01:36
bjh
Audiophile

Posts: 18614
Location: Ontario
Joined: November 22, 2003
 Personally I suspect the YAQIN MS-23B would win but then I'm a big fan of a single pair of tubes used, like many pre-amps, gain and driver for the other half of the triodes.

I was wondering if the YAQIN was a hybrid but it appears not ... it's got simplicity going for it and these days stock Chinese tubes are good and have 'names' :) Of course MM only, or with head amp/trans-stepup.

Pretty sure I heard one of the YAQINs, but can't remember which ... was very good.






 

RE: Best $500 & Under Tube Phono Stage, posted on August 30, 2014 at 17:04:10
bjh
Audiophile

Posts: 18614
Location: Ontario
Joined: November 22, 2003
 You almost feel you have to buy one! LOL

... buy my ph. stage supports 3 tables with memorized full configuration for each and is pretty good so I wouldn't have any excuse. ;)


 

RE: Best $500 & Under Tube Phono Stage, posted on August 30, 2014 at 18:35:45
Theron D
Audiophile

Posts: 790
Location: Maryland
Joined: June 21, 2004
 if I go with a LOMC then the SUT will cost me still....cant win :)
-Theron Day

 

RE: Best $500 & Under Tube Phono Stage, posted on August 30, 2014 at 19:35:07
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 24045
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 > if I go with a LOMC then the SUT will cost me still [more]....cant win :)

Yes, and I don't recommend skimping on a step-up transformer. I've had both the CM-3440A and Bob's Devices CM-1131 in my system, and the 1131 is quite noticeably superior. After hearing it, I could never go back to the 3440A.

Bob's Devices has a couple of new ones called the SKY 20 and SKY 30, which are supposed to sound even better than the 1131, but I haven't heard either. They are basically the same price as the 1131, which is not real cheap at around $1200. Bob doesn't even sell the CM-3440A anymore if that tells you anything. Therefore, based on my experience, it's not worth skimping on a step-up transformer. But, when you have a good one -- wow!

Good luck,
John Elison

 

RE: Best $500 & Under Tube Phono Stage, posted on August 31, 2014 at 06:36:15
Mel
Audiophile

Posts: 3024
Location: New York City Area
Joined: February 21, 2001
 John,

Some do the step-up with transformers; some do it with a JFET or similar device. From your point of view how does one choose? Is one of these approaches clearly better then the other from your point of view?

Mel

 

RE: Best $500 & Under Tube Phono Stage, posted on August 31, 2014 at 10:27:50
jdiamantis
Audiophile

Posts: 111
Location: No. Virginia
Joined: December 16, 2002
 The Yaqin MS-22B had a MOSFET follower after the second tube stage...haven't seen the schematic for the 23B but I might assume it would be the same.

jD

 

RE: Best $500 & Under Tube Phono Stage, posted on August 31, 2014 at 11:15:30
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 24045
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: January 29, 2004
 > Is one of these approaches clearly better then the other from your point of view?

Not necessarily! It depends on the active gain stage and the specific SUT. My reference for the past eleven years has been a Pass Labs XOno active phono preamp. I have never heard a step-up transformer that sounds better to me than the active MC section of the XOno. I tried the CineMag 3440A after reading all the accolades, but it didn't measure up to my XOno. Then Bob Sattin introduced me to his CM-1131 and it was the first SUT that I had heard in years that equaled the audible performance of the MC section of my XOno. It didn't necessarily sound better, but it sounded just as good. It exhibited all the same clarity including deep, tight bass response that I had never heard from a step-up transformer. I was seriously impressed and since I needed a second phono stage to use with my Technics SL-1200, I decided to go with a moving-magnet phono preamp in conjunction with Bob's CM-1131. I couldn't be happier with this combination.

My test for any step-up transformer is to reconfigure my XOno for 40-dB MM gain and connect the SUT. The CM-1131 sounded just as good to me as using the XOno by itself configured for MC gain. The CM-3440A did not provide the same clarity and bass response compared to using the XOno by itself. The difference was fairly substantial.

Best regards,
John Elison

 

excellent information. thank you John ! best Theron NT, posted on August 31, 2014 at 19:53:33
Theron D
Audiophile

Posts: 790
Location: Maryland
Joined: June 21, 2004
 NT
-Theron Day

 

RE: Best $500 & Under Tube Phono Stage, posted on September 1, 2014 at 05:53:05
tlea
Audiophile

Posts: 823
Location: New Orleans
Joined: January 20, 2002
Contributor
  Since: October 29, 2006
 The Jolida JD-9 retailed for $450, but I think there is now a MkII model that is over your budget. If you can find a used or demo unit I suggest giving it a try. I had one in my system for several years and had to triple the price to find anything better.



. . . in theory, practice and theory are the same; in practice, they are different . . .

 

Yaqin and Little Bear phono stages both use active feedback RIAA EQ !, posted on September 1, 2014 at 17:24:11
Interstage Tranny
Audiophile

Posts: 3063
Location: Eastern
Joined: October 4, 2006
 Also, both use unique RIAA EQ R-C(resistor-capacitor) parts values. The Little Bear uses a cathode follower while the Yaqin uses a transistor for lower impedance output as well as passing ("driving" is really not the right verb...) the feedback EQ network to earlier stages.

Googling these units will bring up lots of info; both within forums and within Google Images. Studying the schematics will clearly show their unique parts' values for EQ, compared to the vintage classic preamps that used 12AX7s.

I suggest trying more traditional EQ parts values as an experiment in sonics. Also note that the Lil Bear using 6N2 tubes is not easily converted to 12AX7s; but can be done. The DC filament voltage would have to be raised to accommodate 12AX7s.

If anyone owns these units within central NJ or near NYC, I would love to audition/compare these newbies to my cute, chrome redone 1960s phono preamp...

 

RE: Yaqin and Little Bear phono stages both use active feedback RIAA EQ !, posted on September 1, 2014 at 20:53:27
coffee-phil
Audiophile

Posts: 1444
Location: Shingle Springs CA
Joined: January 7, 2010
 Hi Interstage Tranny,

I was not aware that the Yaqin has a solid state follower at its output.
When I saw the 2 12AX7s I just assumed it was the classic circuit we knew and loved. If you know a link to a schemo I'd love to see it.
While the Little Bear does the EQ in the feedback path it differs from the classic configuration in that the EQ feedback loop is around the second stage (and of coarse the cathode follower) in an inverting configuration. I am a fan of that approach as you don't have to be concerned with the common mode transfer function of the stage. The first stage is a transconductance amplifier with the transconductance primarily set by the unbypassed cathode resistor.

I have a Little Bear in my custody right now and I'd be happy to loan it to you if it were mine. I started by sorting hum issues for a fellow Vinylengine forum member and continued to do other hacks. It is nearing completion and will soon be returning to it's owner. The saga of Little Bear hacking is the subject of a string at Vinylengine which I will link.
So far I can only compare the Little Bear to my Hafler DH 100 internal phono stage as my HK Citation IV in in the middle of restoration. I'm afraid the Little Bear will be long gone before the HK is complete.

I think you will be happy to hear I have mounted my GE RPX and I'm liking it. It has taken it's place in my cartridge arsenal along with my Sonus, B&O, and Shure M44.

I don't think the RPX or even the Shure would be a happy combination with the Little Bear as it has a huge amount of gain. (~ 50 dB @ 1 k Hz)

Phil

 

If we're talking about WPP100C...., posted on September 2, 2014 at 10:24:20
amandarae
Audiophile

Posts: 2596
Location: So.Cal
Joined: November 30, 2004
 .... I totally agree! I had my share of phono stages, both SS and tube. Although I have not tried DHT yet, I will say George Wright's WPP100C with Tribute, Altec, or Lundahl SUT is a keeper for me.

 

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