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In Reply to: RE: Best $500 & Under Tube Phono Stage posted by tubav on August 30, 2014 at 06:40:29
Well, I haven't heard anywhere close to all of them, but my vote goes to my Yaqin MS-22B, which has now been replace by the MS-23B. It costs less than $200 and I would put it up for the best $500 phono stage I've ever heard. I'm using it in conjunction with a Bob's Devices 1131 SUT because I listen to moving coils and this combination sounds nearly as good as my $4200 Pass Labs XOno. After buying the Yaqin MS-22B, I quit looking for a better low-cost phono stage for my SL-1200 Mk2. It satisfies me completely.
Best regards,
John Elison
Follow Ups:
That looks like a very impressive phono stage for the money. From the tube lineup and description it appears to be the classic tube preamp we know and love from the '60s. The packaging is very impressive.
I would like to see a head to head comparison with the Little Bear tube phono stage. The Little Bear has three tube stages, the last being a cathode follower. It is somewhat less expensive no doubt due to it's more modest packaging. Some assembly is required with the Little Bear, and the care in lead dress will effect hum. The Little Bear has sort of a funky breadboard look which kind of appeals to me but surely won't be for everyone. It has it's devotees over at Vinylengine.
Phil
Also, both use unique RIAA EQ R-C(resistor-capacitor) parts values. The Little Bear uses a cathode follower while the Yaqin uses a transistor for lower impedance output as well as passing ("driving" is really not the right verb...) the feedback EQ network to earlier stages.
Googling these units will bring up lots of info; both within forums and within Google Images. Studying the schematics will clearly show their unique parts' values for EQ, compared to the vintage classic preamps that used 12AX7s.
I suggest trying more traditional EQ parts values as an experiment in sonics. Also note that the Lil Bear using 6N2 tubes is not easily converted to 12AX7s; but can be done. The DC filament voltage would have to be raised to accommodate 12AX7s.
If anyone owns these units within central NJ or near NYC, I would love to audition/compare these newbies to my cute, chrome redone 1960s phono preamp...
Hi Interstage Tranny,I was not aware that the Yaqin has a solid state follower at its output.
When I saw the 2 12AX7s I just assumed it was the classic circuit we knew and loved. If you know a link to a schemo I'd love to see it.
While the Little Bear does the EQ in the feedback path it differs from the classic configuration in that the EQ feedback loop is around the second stage (and of coarse the cathode follower) in an inverting configuration. I am a fan of that approach as you don't have to be concerned with the common mode transfer function of the stage. The first stage is a transconductance amplifier with the transconductance primarily set by the unbypassed cathode resistor.I have a Little Bear in my custody right now and I'd be happy to loan it to you if it were mine. I started by sorting hum issues for a fellow Vinylengine forum member and continued to do other hacks. It is nearing completion and will soon be returning to it's owner. The saga of Little Bear hacking is the subject of a string at Vinylengine which I will link.
So far I can only compare the Little Bear to my Hafler DH 100 internal phono stage as my HK Citation IV in in the middle of restoration. I'm afraid the Little Bear will be long gone before the HK is complete.I think you will be happy to hear I have mounted my GE RPX and I'm liking it. It has taken it's place in my cartridge arsenal along with my Sonus, B&O, and Shure M44.
I don't think the RPX or even the Shure would be a happy combination with the Little Bear as it has a huge amount of gain. (~ 50 dB @ 1 k Hz)
Phil
Edits: 09/01/14
Personally I suspect the YAQIN MS-23B would win but then I'm a big fan of a single pair of tubes used, like many pre-amps, gain and driver for the other half of the triodes.
I was wondering if the YAQIN was a hybrid but it appears not ... it's got simplicity going for it and these days stock Chinese tubes are good and have 'names' :) Of course MM only, or with head amp/trans-stepup.
Pretty sure I heard one of the YAQINs, but can't remember which ... was very good.
Never trust an Atom, they Make Up everything!
Very interesting John. I have a Luxman L505u integrated (all SS) and have been thining about getting an external tube phono pre. I have a SL1200 KAB upgrades like you and this looks interesting. THanks for the input, might have to do some research now..best
-Theron Day
Edits: 08/30/14
Well, you can't go too wrong since the price is less than $200. If you buy one I hope you like yours as well as I like mine.
Good luck,
John Elison
You almost feel you have to buy one! LOL
... buy my ph. stage supports 3 tables with memorized full configuration for each and is pretty good so I wouldn't have any excuse. ;)
Never trust an Atom, they Make Up everything!
John, have you rolled any tubes in yours?
No! I am completely satisfied with the tubes it came with. All my other components are solid state so I don't have a stash of tubes around to pick from. I just wanted a cheap phono stage and I took a chance on the Yaqin. I was impressed with it immediately and I just kept listening. So far, I still like it just as much if not more than when I first bought it.
Best regards,
John Elison
if I go with a LOMC then the SUT will cost me still....cant win :)
-Theron Day
> if I go with a LOMC then the SUT will cost me still [more]....cant win :)Yes, and I don't recommend skimping on a step-up transformer. I've had both the CM-3440A and Bob's Devices CM-1131 in my system, and the 1131 is quite noticeably superior. After hearing it, I could never go back to the 3440A.
Bob's Devices has a couple of new ones called the SKY 20 and SKY 30 , which are supposed to sound even better than the 1131, but I haven't heard either. They are basically the same price as the 1131, which is not real cheap at around $1200. Bob doesn't even sell the CM-3440A anymore if that tells you anything. Therefore, based on my experience, it's not worth skimping on a step-up transformer. But, when you have a good one -- wow!
Good luck,
John Elison
Edits: 08/31/14
NT
-Theron Day
John,
Some do the step-up with transformers; some do it with a JFET or similar device. From your point of view how does one choose? Is one of these approaches clearly better then the other from your point of view?
Mel
> Is one of these approaches clearly better then the other from your point of view?
Not necessarily! It depends on the active gain stage and the specific SUT. My reference for the past eleven years has been a Pass Labs XOno active phono preamp. I have never heard a step-up transformer that sounds better to me than the active MC section of the XOno. I tried the CineMag 3440A after reading all the accolades, but it didn't measure up to my XOno. Then Bob Sattin introduced me to his CM-1131 and it was the first SUT that I had heard in years that equaled the audible performance of the MC section of my XOno. It didn't necessarily sound better, but it sounded just as good. It exhibited all the same clarity including deep, tight bass response that I had never heard from a step-up transformer. I was seriously impressed and since I needed a second phono stage to use with my Technics SL-1200, I decided to go with a moving-magnet phono preamp in conjunction with Bob's CM-1131. I couldn't be happier with this combination.
My test for any step-up transformer is to reconfigure my XOno for 40-dB MM gain and connect the SUT. The CM-1131 sounded just as good to me as using the XOno by itself configured for MC gain. The CM-3440A did not provide the same clarity and bass response compared to using the XOno by itself. The difference was fairly substantial.
Best regards,
John Elison
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