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Shady Lane

Buyer Beware: MSS Hifi

207.58.223.102

Last week I purchased a Synergistic Research Powercell 10SE conditioner from MSS Hifi, through Audiogon.

This is how the unit was described in the ad: Synergistic Research Tesla PowerCell 10SE - one the hottest power conditioners in the market. New in open box with manual and $1800 Precision Reference power cord. This is the 10SE fully loaded version. If you wait, it will be gone!!

I received the unit without issue. However, when I contacted Synergistic Research to ask a setup question, Synergistic asked me fr teh serial number of the unit.

We quickly determined that the serial number tag, which is normally epoxied to the unit, had been for forcibly removed from the unit. When the tag is removed, what is left is the epoxy residue. This is what was left on the unit that I purchased.

At this point, Synergistic explained to me that without a serial number, they have no way to know the history of the unit or even if it is an actual unit produced by Synergistic. I was also informed that they will not service a unit that does not have a serial number.

At that point, I contacted MSS Hifi and explained the situation. The owner of MSS Hifi was very rude and told me that he would not allow me to return the unit. He claimed that the unit came to him direct from the factory without the serial number. I checked with Synergistic and learned that they have never sold a unit without a serial number.

I explained the owner of MSS Hifi that I never would have purchased the unit had he disclosed that the serial number had been removed from the unit. I asked him why he will not let me return the unit.

His response was to repeat over and over again, "Because I'm a dick and I don't care."

I have filed a dispute with Audiogon and I will see where this takes me.

Please be very careful if you ever consider doing business with MSS Hifi.

Follow Ups:

and... we all knew this was coming.... it's been reposted FS - Enchantment1.6s 14:34:33 11/16/09 (2)
Why does audiogon let crap like this go on and on and on? The entire add is full of crap and lies. We know it didn't come direct from SR... and we know that MSS can't warranty the item or do any work on it unless they pilfer parts off another grey market powercell.
Seriously????

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Edits: 11/16/09
- RE: and... we all knew this was coming.... it's been reposted FS - slapshot 17:17:59 11/16/09 (1)
  I sent the MSS hifi ad to Synergistic Research; they should complain to audiogon about this as it seems like libel to me.
  - Yup... I did the same. - Enchantment1.6s 17:19:16 11/16/09 (0)
    nm
    My Photos
    
    Help find a cure for me! Donate to support IC research and programs
RE: Buyer Beware: MSS Hifi - Wendell Narrod 08:26:53 11/12/09 (0)
Always, always, always use a credit card when purchasing from outfits like this. If you get what you paid for, fine. If not, your Credit Card issuer will protect you and charge it back to the dealer. PayPal sucks at this. Never pay with your bank account thru them and don't carry a balance in your PayPal account. If you get ripped off they are close to useless. I speak from personal experience and have no faith in them.

-Wendell
RE: Buyer Beware: MSS Hifi - Brian Cheney 19:08:49 11/10/09 (0)
I will risk the Wrath of Massimo and respond to this thread from a manufacturer's perspective.

Any dealer who advertises goods for sale as "new" or "as new", but removes or defaces their serial numbers, may be suspected of reselling used, stolen, or gray market goods. Manufacturers do not support such dealers and will not service such products in or out of warranty.

MSS Hifi's offering a "house warranty" of so many years is of no consequence if OEM parts are not available to them. Therefore, the risk to the buyer, who may well end up with nonfunctional, counterfeit or unservicable gear, is very great.

Regardless of pricing offered to a potential customer, no one should do business with such a dealership. In my experience, the sales claims ($10M??)he makes are unsubstantiated and likely untrue. Given the man's criminal record (for particularly unsavory crimes), a simple "caveat emptor" is insufficient.

I would just say "no".
RE: Buyer Beware: MSS Hifi - Blacken_ 18:59:56 11/09/09 (3)
He may act and speak uncouthly sometimes, but I've bought at least 4 items from him before, and they were all smooth transactions.

However, you've got your rights, and I'm glad to see that you were protected and you got your problems resolved,.

Its just I see this kind of bashing done here as a bit over-the-top.
- disagree about the bashing... - slapshot 07:24:40 11/10/09 (0)
  ...it's clear, from his posts here and elsewhere, that Massimo is his own worst enemy...
- RE: Buyer Beware: MSS Hifi - Brian Walsh 07:10:25 11/10/09 (1)
  "He may act and speak uncouthly sometimes"
  Judging by reports from others and from his own postings as "Massimo" below, this is not "sometimes" behavior.
  
  "but I've bought at least 4 items from him before, and they were all smooth transactions."
  Let's see. You're in Malaysia, which happens to be his homeland. And you are a relative newcomer with only six posts, two of them defending him. Hmm.
  
  "However, you've got your rights, and I'm glad to see that you were protected and you got your problems resolved,."
  How can you try to make light of it after JB repeatedly insulted him as well as the guy making a serious offer on the Totem speakers (and his wife), not to mention not responding to the questions by several about why the serial number was removed?
  
  "Its just I see this kind of bashing done here as a bit over-the-top."
  The moderators here are even handed and don't allow that to happen. In this case I don't see it as bashing at all, considering how these people were treated.
  
  Brian Walsh
  - RE: Buyer Beware: MSS Hifi - Blacken_ 22:10:15 11/10/09 (0)
    "but I've bought at least 4 items from him before, and they were all smooth transactions."
    Let's see. You're in Malaysia, which happens to be his homeland. And you are a relative newcomer with only six posts, two of them defending him. Hmm.
    
    I happen to be a repeat customer. I bought things from him as far back as in 1998, and he personally brought them back to Malaysia and delivered to me. I continue to buy things from him because I get great prices from him.
    
    There's no need to imply anything else about my relationship with MSS other than a commercial one; and when my new room is finished and equipment is up in 2 months or so, I'll post my system here so you'll see where I stand as an audio enthusiast.
    
    I am not MSS's apologist. And given how strenuously his posts here have been, I certainly do not see the need for him to have one.
Thanks for the heads up... - Arvind Kohli 06:08:14 11/08/09 (0)
...I was considering a couple of things he has on the 'gon, have to admit his prices can be pretty nice. I was already weary of his tacky ads and claims, but this thread seals it for me - I'll never buy from him.
Audiogon Does The Right Thing - Krisgel 17:03:43 11/07/09 (3)
I want to thank Audiogon for not letting MSS Hifi get away with this.

Audiogon has ruled that Johnny Boey is to grant me a full refund, including the cost to ship the unit back to him.

Thanks again Audiogon!
- Getting some Good publicity from this... - Djhymn 10:57:02 11/08/09 (0)
  Would only be in the best interest of MSS HiFi.
  
  A nice posting saying how you were satisfied would go a long way toward putting MSS HiFi in a better light, this kind of circumstance could be a business trasher, especially with the large community and readership here on the Asylum.
  
  The very best thing MSS could do would be to offer you some kind of a gift in the way of apology, whether cash, a CD, etc, almost anything would go a long way to make you feel better about your dealings with MSS.
- RE: Audiogon Does The Right Thing - Brian Walsh 06:59:38 11/08/09 (0)
  Good for you. Please email me privately - the system here says your email address is not valid.
  
  Brian Walsh
- RE: Audiogon Does The Right Thing - slapshot 21:18:03 11/07/09 (0)
  Good!--I wrote them a letter referring them to Boey's posts here questioning whether they really want someone like that selling stuff. Doubt if they will change anything, but glad you got a ruling in your favor. Question is: Will Johnny-boy do the right thing now? I'm not convinced he will.
never had any problems with him - siramazing 05:17:36 11/06/09 (4)
I have bought and sold several items from him and he has always proved to be honest and reliable. He bought my VTL preamp, a Bryston 4b, cables, and etc. and gave me fair wholesale prices and always paid quickly. I purchased a used Krell Ksa-250 from him on a trade-in for the Bryston and some cash, and I was quite satisfied. I always thought the "audio pimp" name was clever. I can't comment on anything else other than my own experiences.

Bill

I want to die like my grandfather-peacefully in his sleep, not like his passengers, crying and screaming!!
- Regardless... - slapshot 07:12:42 11/06/09 (3)
  ...of any good experiences one might have had with him (and I'm not doubting you at all), the way the "audio pimp" has conducted himself here is enough to convince me that I do not wish to have any interactions with him.
  - RE: Regardless... - siramazing 13:45:33 11/06/09 (2)
    I cannot disagree with you. His replies to this thread have not been responsible and reasoned.
    
    Bill
    
    I want to die like my grandfather-peacefully in his sleep, not like his passengers, crying and screaming!!
    - Deep Thoughts . . . - JoshT 13:56:00 11/06/09 (1)
      Love your tag line!
      - RE: Deep Thoughts . . . - siramazing 14:30:01 11/06/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Deep Thoughts . . . posted by JoshT on November 06, 2009 at 13:56:00
        
        Thanks-I stole it from someone on a Harley Davidson forum.
        
        Bill
        
        I want to die like my grandfather-peacefully in his sleep, not like his passengers, crying and screaming!!
Thanks - JoshT 17:26:55 11/05/09 (0)
The best part of your post is the owner of MSS HiFi jumping in and acting like such an asshole.

He has some very tempting deals on Audiogon (like Totem and Dynaudio speakers), but I'll look elsewhere after reading this thread, particularly his own posts.
Nice try (RE: Buyer Beware: MSS Hifi - Massimo 07:16:27 11/03/09 (13)
Nice try. What this poster failed to disclose is that he's someone Ted Denny of Synergistic sent to find out where we have been getting their products to blow out at a discount. There was no misrepresentation in this sale. The unit was sold as new in open box. It has indeed never been plugged in, and the buyer received it mint and in perfect working condition.

Nevertheless, we will offer these favors:
- detailed operating instruction since the buyer struggled so badly with his new power conditioner
- MSS service agreement

This is the operation instructions that I am sure everyone would be very curious to know before they try to operate a new power conditioner:
Step 1:Locate the power cord to the unit. Plug it into the back of the unit, but not into the wall yet
Step 2: Plug in all your equipment to the back of the unit
Step 3: Plug the power cord of the power conditioner into the wall
Step 4: Plug the wall wart MPC into the wall,and the other end into the Powercell 10SE
Step 5: Voila! Everything should light up

As for warranty service, everyone knows that you have to go to a local dealer, bend over and pay full retail for that. MSS HiFi likes to fight this fascist industry by blowing things out. We will offer this special warranty and service agreement to Ted Denny's buddy:
- MSS HiFi will service this unit free of charge within 3 years of purchase. This is provided that the defect is not caused by misuse or natural disasters.
- After 3 years, MSS HiFi will continue to service this unit at a standard hourly rate and parts costs.

Since MSS HiFi is a much bigger company than Synergistic Research in both top line sales and bottom line profit, this is indeed a more reassuring offer than even the factory warranty, and the buyer had even realized a $1750 savings upfront off MSRP. The works done at MSS HiFi will be of equal or higher standards as we do not hire immigrants on the assembly line (Yes, we have visited the factory before).
- RE: Nice try (RE: Buyer Beware: MSS Hifi - Marc Almirall 11:09:35 11/14/09 (0)
  "It has never been plugged in, and the buyer received it mint and in perfect working condition"
  
  How can you know if any electrical device is in perfect working condition if you have never plugged it in?
  
  I also seem to remember these guys posting an add for some SRA platforms awhile back, stating that one of the platforms was designed for cd players, the other for preamps, and the other pair for mono amps. Apparently SRA had stopped making platforms that were component specific somewhere along the line. The guys at Silent Running Audio had to post a alternate add stating the specific models of amps and preamps they were intended to be used with.
- RE: Nice try (RE: Buyer Beware: MSS Hifi - Frank I 05:18:06 11/04/09 (0)
  what did you do to the serial number. You wont answer that you are a fraud and should do time for the crime
- Once has to admire such a flamboyant fake name. And avoid dealing with people with fake names. nt - jbcortes 16:43:38 11/03/09 (0)
  nt
- A total lie - Krisgel 16:04:25 11/03/09 (3)
  Massimo aka Joey Boey is not telling the truth. I have never met or spoken with anyone at Synergistic Research until after you sold me the unit with the serial number removed.
  
  I am an honest buyer who was scammed and taken advantage of buy a dishonest businessman.
  - RE: A total lie - Massimo 17:53:23 11/03/09 (2)
    Yeah we believe you - a purveyor of DIY and off the beaten track gear actually had to call the manufacturer about how to operate a power conditioner. Remember, you cannot play THE player.
    - RE: A total lie - Krisgel 18:35:44 11/03/09 (1)
      Your statement, "We believe you..." implies that others are on your side. In fact nobody is on your side. Everyone here can see right through you. Everyone here realizes what kind of person you really are.
      
      I have posted here since 2001, and those that know me can vouch for my credibility. You, on the other hand, have no credibility.
      - RE: A total lie - Massimo 20:11:23 11/03/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: A total lie posted by Krisgel on November 03, 2009 at 18:35:44
        
        Street credit and proud of it. Notoriety made MSS a $10mil company. We'll need more notoriety to hit 20.
- but... - slapshot 13:11:53 11/03/09 (0)
  You never really address the issue of the missing serial number.
- RE: Nice try (RE: Buyer Beware: MSS Hifi - jeremy.maitland@gmail.com 12:08:47 11/03/09 (3)
  This is a message I received from TOTEM regarding some speakers being sold at MSS.
  
  Hi,
  
  the units purchased from MSS HIFI came from an unauthorized source and as such we would refuse any warranty and service on the units
  
  we recommend purchasing used product from authorized vendors or from individuals who have the original bill of sale
  
  take care,
  
  TOTEM
  
  My recommendation is to never, every buy from MSS.
  - RE: Nice try (RE: Buyer Beware: MSS Hifi - Massimo 12:16:02 11/03/09 (2)
    More fascist behaviour. We are the leaders of the FREE world. MSS HiFi does not negotiate with terrorists.
    - RE: Nice try (RE: Buyer Beware: MSS Hifi - jeremy.maitland@gmail.com 12:38:02 11/03/09 (1)
      You are the leaders of nothing. Listless, and without direction. My only hope for you is that some day you will learn what it means to be fully human. Learn compassion, respect, and love.
      
      Goodbye. I am forever done with you.
      - RE: Nice try (RE: Buyer Beware: MSS Hifi - Massimo 12:56:54 11/03/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Nice try (RE: Buyer Beware: MSS Hifi posted by jeremy.maitland@gmail.com on November 03, 2009 at 12:38:02
        
        The flowers of indulgence and the weeds of yesteryear, they have choked the breath of conscience and good cheer
- You are so full of sh*t I can smell you all the way over here in Oregon - Enchantment1.6s 09:27:27 11/03/09 (0)
  quote "What this poster failed to disclose is that he's someone Ted Denny of Synergistic sent to find out where we have been getting their products to blow out at a discount."
  
  I call BS.
  
  Is that why you pried the serial number tag off? or do you do that with all your 'new' products?
  My Photos
  
  Help find a cure for me! Donate to support IC research and programs
That's Audio Pimp. - The Killer Piglet 20:42:27 11/02/09 (0)
Enough said.

KP
MSS Hi-Fi had their dealership status yanked by Synergistic - Enchantment1.6s 19:47:30 11/2/09 (0)
for unsavory sales practices and other issues and being a bad representation of the dealers that SR wants selling their product.
The unit you bought was a topic of great discussion at RMAF because no one at SR or anywhere else could figure out where the unit MSS had came from.
I must say I was tempted to buy some ICs from them at one point but after calling them and being very rudely told that no they weren't an authorized dealer and then hung up on, I called Synergistic and got the story about MSS. As much of a good deal some of their things seem.... I'll never buy anything from them.
It seems to me... - jbcortes 19:35:34 11/2/09 (0)
that if you have emails from MSS stating they bought the item from the factory, and the factory denying it, you have enough material to open a case for fraud somewhere. For all you know, the equipment might've been stolen.

Even if it hasn't, the fact the serial number was missing should in any case have been mentioned, the item cannot be sold "as new".

I never suspected MSS were that shady. That might be the reason why they suddenly changed name. I'll never deal with them.
RE: Buyer Beware: MSS Hifi - Jon L5 18:50:34 11/2/09 (5)
according to the website the MSS is for Massimo S. Sancrimoni.

http://www.jbaudiopimp.com/meetthestaff.html

a google search turns up nothing on the guy. Neither does a search of http://www.usa-people-search.com/ and that site has just about everybody. This company smells bad. I don't buy anything from companies run by people with italian names due to consistent bad experiences.
- RE: Massimo S. Sancrimoni - Brian Walsh 20:25:25 11/02/09 (1)
  Re: Massimo S. Sancrimoni
  
  It's a fictitious name (the last name misspelled, referring to the word sacrimony , defined here ...how does that make you feel?).
  
  His real name is Johnny Yit Boey. Google "Johnny Boey" and view the last link (NSFW).
  
  Brian Walsh
  - Meet the Staff page - Metralla 21:24:44 11/02/09 (0)
    If you hover your cursor over "Email Massimo" the status bar says mailto:johnny@msshifi.com
    
    Regards,
    Geoff
    - http://www.jbaudiopimp.com/meetthestaff.html (Open in New Window)
- RE: "people with Italian names" - thegage 19:42:14 11/2/09 (2)
  You have got to be kidding.
  
  John K.
  - RE: "people with Italian names" - Jon L5 19:57:37 11/2/09 (1)
    you'd think so but I'm not. Who am I to refuse to learn from my experiences? I don't know squat about names, google thinks it's italian.
    
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia
    
    It's not a coincidence that when Americans think of organized crime they don't think of the British or Germans.
    - Don't be ridiculous - jbcortes 21:15:13 11/02/09 (0)
      "People with Italian names"? What's next? "People with dark skin"?
      First of all, this guy is as Italian as my dog, and his name rings so fake it's funny to anybody speaking even basic Italian.
      Second, even if he was Italian, for you it means all Italians are crooks?
      
      Please don't spread stupid, racist cliches here. I notice you're unregistered, which is probably not a coincidence.
      
      Jean-Baptiste
      
      Edits: 11/02/09
"Because I'm a dick and I don't care." - musetap 11:43:25 11/2/09 (5)
Well, at least he's honest in some aspects of his being.

Good luck getting this sorted out.
- RE: "Because I'm a dick and I don't care." - jeremy.maitland@gmail.com 17:59:49 11/2/09 (2)
  just to bring this back up, and give my own experience...
  
  See below for email transactions between myself and MSS. I started it off by offering 1900 for some Totems listed at 2250
  
  MSS Replied:
  Sorry, we do not play the silly discount game. MSS HiFi, Inc. prices
  everything to sell. The good news is that we are a very big dealer. If this
  particular item is out of your budget, you should definitely check
  www.msshifi.com. Chances are that you will find something else that fits
  your budget better.
  
  My reply:
  I understand completely. I figured it was worth a shot. My wife won't let me spend more than 2000 on speakers, and I would need to drive from Montreal down to your shop to pick them up...Please let me know if you choose to lower the price on these. I have spent a lot of time looking into other speakers, but the sound quality and imaging on the totems is amazing for the price.
  Best,
  
  Mss: (who also copied all other employee's (not even bcc)
  What is your wife going to do if you spend over $2000? Is she that awesome, impossible to replace? No one is. Even if she is, you should call her bluff and spend $2250 anyway. She will lose and have new-found respect for you.
  
  This piece of valuable advice alone is worth $250. Stop by and pay $2250, and pretend that you spent $2000 for the speakers plus $250 for consultation.
  
  Me: (a week later)
  Seriously? A week, and you don't even apologize for what you said? Makes me quite sad.
  I will certainly be posting on the forums about this now.
  
  MSS: Yes, please do. We love free publicity. Our business thrives with increased notoriety. You remind me of an ex-girlfriend that keeps coming the more I abuse her. Same concept.
  
  (end quote)
  
  I mean, really? I know he's just trying to get a rise out of me now, and it is almost funny, but what business should EVER speak to a potential customer like that?
  
  Some good deals, yes. But with what I'm reading, it's difficult to believe it's all legit, and clearly quite an a$$hole.
  - RE: "Because I'm a dick and I don't care." - Vik 19:29:18 11/2/09 (1)
    I don't mean to poke fun, MSS' comments in your email exchange are atrocious, but I must admit- they are quite funny.
    
    This guy is quite a character. Kind of like the guy you know in high school who is loads of fun but you would never want your sister to date.
    - RE: "Because I'm a dick and I don't care." - jeremy.maitland@gmail.com 19:46:02 11/2/09 (0)
      I think I admitted as much. Yeah, kinda funny. And considering I haven't spent any money there, it's really not that big of a deal for me, I just want people to know what they're likely getting themselves into.
      
      At this point, I see him as that crazy, drunk, chauvinist pig uncle who is occasionally a little funny, but is increasingly just very, very sad to be around.
- What a great company motto! - E-Stat 14:07:12 11/2/09 (1)
  When I worked in hi-fi in the Atlanta area in the 70s, there was a guy who ran "Dirty Don's Warehouse Audio". You can imagine the product and his policies. He had a "30-30" return policy. That meant 30 seconds or 30 feet out the door!
  
  rw
  - I'd be concerned about copyright infringement. - R Browne 15:36:32 11/2/09 (0)
    That motto has already been taken by (insert) __.
RE: Buyer Beware: MSS Hifi - tikkenator@yahoo.com 11:37:40 11/2/09 (3)
MSS Hifi sells gray market goods. Many authorized dealers are unloading their goods out the back door and Johnny sells them on MSS Hifi. I am not surprised the serial number is missing- that way, the dealer selling it out the back door cannot be identified.
- prolly' not dealer, more like former bankrupt dealers stealing his own stuff.. - Elizabeth 13:58:41 11/03/09 (0)
  Dealers going belly up don't usually own the stock anymore.. if they sell it, it is just stolen stuff...
  Thus (perhaps) the missing serial #
- "Many authorized dealers are unloading their goods out the back door" - Metralla 14:49:00 11/2/09 (1)
  why do they do that? Surely the offer would be very low. Would they get their costs?
  - They get cost, probably, and they don't have it publicized to their dealers that they're cutting better deals - tinear 17:52:48 11/2/09 (0)
    elsewhere.
RE: Buyer Beware: MSS Hifi - Neil G 11:36:39 11/2/09 (0)
For me personally, I wouldn't have considered doing business with someone that used to go by the name JB Audio Pimp.
thank you - mbnx01 11:35:32 11/2/09 (0)
Thank you for posting this. It's very useful information to have. I've seen MSS's ad's on Agon and I buy a lot of stuff there.

Now I will NEVER even bother looking at their ads again, and certainly won't do business there.
RE: Buyer Beware: MSS Hifi - Vik 11:34:46 11/2/09 (1)
I'd be concerned that the unit is stolen with serial numbers scrubbed like that. You may want to contact the NYPD (or wherever you think is appropriate based on MSS' location) to see if anyone reported the item stolen. Maybe MSS is a fence?? I don't know but calling the police is a pretty easy way to find out.

Also, Paypal has some (tedious) remedies for this tyope of fraud even with bank payments. I would do whatever you can to stop payment and report the fraud. Contact your bank if paypal won't play ball.

Vik
- "I'd be concerned that the unit is stolen with serial numbers scrubbed like that. " - Wendell Narrod 16:15:34 11/11/09 (0)
  My guess is they aren't stolen but it is done to protect the authorized dealers who are selling him product, out the backdoor, in violation of their dealer agreement. It is not unknown or even unusual in this business.
  
  -Wendell
RE: Buyer Beware: MSS Hifi - Music-in-a-bottle 11:16:41 11/2/09 (0)
I'll stay clear! I work too hard for my money for that Bullshat!
RE: Buyer Beware: MSS Hifi - Frank I 11:09:44 11/2/09 (2)
Stop your credit card and call both the US and NY state attorney general and file a criminal complaint. Mail Fraud is a Federal crime and if he took off the serial number he commited fraud as it was advertised as new.
- RE: Buyer Beware: MSS Hifi - Krisgel 11:19:32 11/2/09 (1)
  It was purchased using Paypal with funds from my bank account.
  - RE: That was your first mistake - Shlooby 11:35:40 11/2/09 (0)
    I'm sorry for the hassle you're in, but why on earth people would ever buy anything on the internet with something other than a credit card is beyond me.
RE: Buyer Beware: MSS Hifi - Iron Knee 11:08:04 11/2/09 (0)
I am surprised that an expensive item would not have a serial number located in multiple locations (sticker under the transformer) or some other inconspicuous place. Many times multiple serial numbers are present and if the manuf. did not dislose this, it is a bad business practice. Multiple serial numbers should be hidden about the unit.

---
The ancients said : "Know thyself!" - John Marks 10:50:33 11/2/09 (0)
"So at least [he's] got that going for him."

-Caddyshack

JM
pro se

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