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Last week I purchased a Synergistic Research Powercell 10SE conditioner from MSS Hifi, through Audiogon.
This is how the unit was described in the ad: Synergistic Research Tesla PowerCell 10SE - one the hottest power conditioners in the market. New in open box with manual and $1800 Precision Reference power cord. This is the 10SE fully loaded version. If you wait, it will be gone!!
I received the unit without issue. However, when I contacted Synergistic Research to ask a setup question, Synergistic asked me fr teh serial number of the unit.
We quickly determined that the serial number tag, which is normally epoxied to the unit, had been for forcibly removed from the unit. When the tag is removed, what is left is the epoxy residue. This is what was left on the unit that I purchased.
At this point, Synergistic explained to me that without a serial number, they have no way to know the history of the unit or even if it is an actual unit produced by Synergistic. I was also informed that they will not service a unit that does not have a serial number.
At that point, I contacted MSS Hifi and explained the situation. The owner of MSS Hifi was very rude and told me that he would not allow me to return the unit. He claimed that the unit came to him direct from the factory without the serial number. I checked with Synergistic and learned that they have never sold a unit without a serial number.
I explained the owner of MSS Hifi that I never would have purchased the unit had he disclosed that the serial number had been removed from the unit. I asked him why he will not let me return the unit.
His response was to repeat over and over again, "Because I'm a dick and I don't care."
I have filed a dispute with Audiogon and I will see where this takes me.
Please be very careful if you ever consider doing business with MSS Hifi.
Follow Ups:
There is a notice of eviction on the door of their 27th Street NYC retail space this morning, fyi.
WW
New Orthophonic High Fidelity
WOW this MSS HI FI must be the biggest crook in audio.
There's 87 pages about this crook on audio aficionado
with all the shit that has come down on this guy,i think he's dabbleing in some other illegal areas.common sense says that this numbnuts can't be making any kind of money pushing audio gear;there has to be some other product.maybe the ATF&E AND DEA should take a look at this dude.this lowlife has to be brought down,contact your local federal senator/congressperson..it can and will be done.
jim buck
OMG I remember bad actor JB from back in 1997 on the rec.audio.marketplace newsgroup -- infamous for 15 years now.
I've got to say that, although I know none of the players mentioned here...and I've never done any business with them...I thoroughly enjoyed reading the entire thread. It was very educational for a relative newbie like myself. Bottom line: "They're out there!"...and I will be very careful if I ever need to order audio equiptment over the internet. My gut reaction to Mr. "Massimio" is that I would never even contemplate doing business with someone who speaks in such an adolescent, arrogant and way too informal manner.
I noticed that MSS no longer sells on Audiogon. See semi-rant on their re-vamped website
I have bought 1 revel voice, 3 cables, 2 accesories from MSShifi and the transactios were smooth and shipping fast. Items as described. In fact when I received my Revel voice center speaker I noticed a scratched mark on the speaker and inform Johnny about it. He gave me a small refund without me asking for it. So as far as I m concern he seems reasonably reliable but certainly not a very friendly character. Anyway whether he is friendly or not is not important, more important is that he is reliable and the price of his preowned items are generally cheaper than other sellers
Happy Listening. Stay happy , stay healthy by listening to more music
Says the man from Malaysia with one post.
U can check out my postings in audiogon under audioblazer or tapeproject forum under audioblazers or eBay 536 feedback under trailblazers_song or my own website t-blazers.com.my or Prulia.com.my where I am the association president for the 2nd terms whether I am for real? I suppose we must be Johnny boey bashing to be for real. Posting my own positive experience is not very acceptable in a msshifi bashing thread and some fr pple who has no dealing with him but as long as u bash msshifi/Johnny boey then it's an acceptable response
Happy Listening. Stay happy , stay healthy by listening to more music
attitude and shady dealings, I would not buy from any audio dealer who uses the following sleazy descriptions of the staff (taken directly from MSS HiFi Website):
"Bubbly has a big attitude for a little person but it's usually reserved for the boss. She is the well-known in-demand salesperson in sultry jeans, and is skilled in logistics and after-sales support."
"Britney handles the front lines of the operation, an exceptional greeter in low-cut blouses. She has mastered the art of keeping the office and employees in line with her stern warnings and motherly overtones."
In most businesses, these descriptions could result in a sexual harassment charge.
DLB
"Music is framed in silence."
Once a pimp, always a pimp, you may change the cover, but it's still the same book, and when it aint good it aint good,if it was me , i would sue them you have a very good case, don't forget this is a ( store )
Acoustat's Heaven On Earth
Bow Wazoo XL
Electrocompaniet EMC-1up
Acoustat's 1+1s Highly Modified
I recently had the pleasure of visiting them. At first I was like they seem shady especially the gray haired guy but after Cary helped me and got me a good deal on some Monitor Audio goldys I was happy! They even lemme borrow one of there Nordost demo cables:)
I would def buy from them again. They have some good stuff....
maybe that's the best way to deal with them in the near future,if you're within driving distance.it's also a good way for them to redeem themselves after all the adverse posts
jim buck
Why does audiogon let crap like this go on and on and on? The entire add is full of crap and lies. We know it didn't come direct from SR... and we know that MSS can't warranty the item or do any work on it unless they pilfer parts off another grey market powercell.
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Edits: 11/16/09
I sent the MSS hifi ad to Synergistic Research; they should complain to audiogon about this as it seems like libel to me.
nm
My Photos
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Always, always, always use a credit card when purchasing from outfits like this. If you get what you paid for, fine. If not, your Credit Card issuer will protect you and charge it back to the dealer. PayPal sucks at this. Never pay with your bank account thru them and don't carry a balance in your PayPal account. If you get ripped off they are close to useless. I speak from personal experience and have no faith in them.
-Wendell
I second this advice! I along with 14 other buyers were scammed by MUSICSELLER over an Audiogon Dutch Auction.
Audiogon did nothing for me, but suspended this seller's account.
Paypal did even less, sent me all of the reasons why I am totally protected and did not refund my money, nor did they close or suspend the sellers account.
It was American Express who finally stepped-up to the plate and did a charge-back to Paypal.
Paypal sent me an e-mail acting as if the whole thing was new news to them. So much for protection and follow-up.
As I had closed both Audiogon and Paypal accounts, I am a happy AMEX customer now.
Lesson learned, use your credit card.
I will risk the Wrath of Massimo and respond to this thread from a manufacturer's perspective.
Any dealer who advertises goods for sale as "new" or "as new", but removes or defaces their serial numbers, may be suspected of reselling used, stolen, or gray market goods. Manufacturers do not support such dealers and will not service such products in or out of warranty.
MSS Hifi's offering a "house warranty" of so many years is of no consequence if OEM parts are not available to them. Therefore, the risk to the buyer, who may well end up with nonfunctional, counterfeit or unservicable gear, is very great.
Regardless of pricing offered to a potential customer, no one should do business with such a dealership. In my experience, the sales claims ($10M??)he makes are unsubstantiated and likely untrue. Given the man's criminal record (for particularly unsavory crimes), a simple "caveat emptor" is insufficient.
I would just say "no".
He may act and speak uncouthly sometimes, but I've bought at least 4 items from him before, and they were all smooth transactions.
However, you've got your rights, and I'm glad to see that you were protected and you got your problems resolved,.
Its just I see this kind of bashing done here as a bit over-the-top.
...it's clear, from his posts here and elsewhere, that Massimo is his own worst enemy...
"He may act and speak uncouthly sometimes"
Judging by reports from others and from his own postings as "Massimo" below, this is not "sometimes" behavior.
"but I've bought at least 4 items from him before, and they were all smooth transactions."
Let's see. You're in Malaysia, which happens to be his homeland. And you are a relative newcomer with only six posts, two of them defending him. Hmm.
"However, you've got your rights, and I'm glad to see that you were protected and you got your problems resolved,."
How can you try to make light of it after JB repeatedly insulted him as well as the guy making a serious offer on the Totem speakers (and his wife), not to mention not responding to the questions by several about why the serial number was removed?
"Its just I see this kind of bashing done here as a bit over-the-top."
The moderators here are even handed and don't allow that to happen. In this case I don't see it as bashing at all, considering how these people were treated.
Brian Walsh
"but I've bought at least 4 items from him before, and they were all smooth transactions."
Let's see. You're in Malaysia, which happens to be his homeland. And you are a relative newcomer with only six posts, two of them defending him. Hmm.
I happen to be a repeat customer. I bought things from him as far back as in 1998, and he personally brought them back to Malaysia and delivered to me. I continue to buy things from him because I get great prices from him.
There's no need to imply anything else about my relationship with MSS other than a commercial one; and when my new room is finished and equipment is up in 2 months or so, I'll post my system here so you'll see where I stand as an audio enthusiast.
I am not MSS's apologist. And given how strenuously his posts here have been, I certainly do not see the need for him to have one.
...I was considering a couple of things he has on the 'gon, have to admit his prices can be pretty nice. I was already weary of his tacky ads and claims, but this thread seals it for me - I'll never buy from him.
I want to thank Audiogon for not letting MSS Hifi get away with this.
Audiogon has ruled that Johnny Boey is to grant me a full refund, including the cost to ship the unit back to him.
Thanks again Audiogon!
Would only be in the best interest of MSS HiFi.
A nice posting saying how you were satisfied would go a long way toward putting MSS HiFi in a better light, this kind of circumstance could be a business trasher, especially with the large community and readership here on the Asylum.
The very best thing MSS could do would be to offer you some kind of a gift in the way of apology, whether cash, a CD, etc, almost anything would go a long way to make you feel better about your dealings with MSS.
Good for you. Please email me privately - the system here says your email address is not valid.
Brian Walsh
Good!--I wrote them a letter referring them to Boey's posts here questioning whether they really want someone like that selling stuff. Doubt if they will change anything, but glad you got a ruling in your favor. Question is: Will Johnny-boy do the right thing now? I'm not convinced he will.
I have bought and sold several items from him and he has always proved to be honest and reliable. He bought my VTL preamp, a Bryston 4b, cables, and etc. and gave me fair wholesale prices and always paid quickly. I purchased a used Krell Ksa-250 from him on a trade-in for the Bryston and some cash, and I was quite satisfied. I always thought the "audio pimp" name was clever. I can't comment on anything else other than my own experiences.
Bill
I want to die like my grandfather-peacefully in his sleep, not like his passengers, crying and screaming!!
...of any good experiences one might have had with him (and I'm not doubting you at all), the way the "audio pimp" has conducted himself here is enough to convince me that I do not wish to have any interactions with him.
I cannot disagree with you. His replies to this thread have not been responsible and reasoned.
Bill
I want to die like my grandfather-peacefully in his sleep, not like his passengers, crying and screaming!!
Love your tag line!
Thanks-I stole it from someone on a Harley Davidson forum.
Bill
I want to die like my grandfather-peacefully in his sleep, not like his passengers, crying and screaming!!
The best part of your post is the owner of MSS HiFi jumping in and acting like such an asshole.
He has some very tempting deals on Audiogon (like Totem and Dynaudio speakers), but I'll look elsewhere after reading this thread, particularly his own posts.
Nice try. What this poster failed to disclose is that he's someone Ted Denny of Synergistic sent to find out where we have been getting their products to blow out at a discount. There was no misrepresentation in this sale. The unit was sold as new in open box. It has indeed never been plugged in, and the buyer received it mint and in perfect working condition.
Nevertheless, we will offer these favors:
- detailed operating instruction since the buyer struggled so badly with his new power conditioner
- MSS service agreement
This is the operation instructions that I am sure everyone would be very curious to know before they try to operate a new power conditioner:
Step 1:Locate the power cord to the unit. Plug it into the back of the unit, but not into the wall yet
Step 2: Plug in all your equipment to the back of the unit
Step 3: Plug the power cord of the power conditioner into the wall
Step 4: Plug the wall wart MPC into the wall,and the other end into the Powercell 10SE
Step 5: Voila! Everything should light up
As for warranty service, everyone knows that you have to go to a local dealer, bend over and pay full retail for that. MSS HiFi likes to fight this fascist industry by blowing things out. We will offer this special warranty and service agreement to Ted Denny's buddy:
- MSS HiFi will service this unit free of charge within 3 years of purchase. This is provided that the defect is not caused by misuse or natural disasters.
- After 3 years, MSS HiFi will continue to service this unit at a standard hourly rate and parts costs.
Since MSS HiFi is a much bigger company than Synergistic Research in both top line sales and bottom line profit, this is indeed a more reassuring offer than even the factory warranty, and the buyer had even realized a $1750 savings upfront off MSRP. The works done at MSS HiFi will be of equal or higher standards as we do not hire immigrants on the assembly line (Yes, we have visited the factory before).
"It has never been plugged in, and the buyer received it mint and in perfect working condition"
How can you know if any electrical device is in perfect working condition if you have never plugged it in?
I also seem to remember these guys posting an add for some SRA platforms awhile back, stating that one of the platforms was designed for cd players, the other for preamps, and the other pair for mono amps. Apparently SRA had stopped making platforms that were component specific somewhere along the line. The guys at Silent Running Audio had to post a alternate add stating the specific models of amps and preamps they were intended to be used with.
what did you do to the serial number. You wont answer that you are a fraud and should do time for the crime
nt
Massimo aka Joey Boey is not telling the truth. I have never met or spoken with anyone at Synergistic Research until after you sold me the unit with the serial number removed.
I am an honest buyer who was scammed and taken advantage of buy a dishonest businessman.
Yeah we believe you - a purveyor of DIY and off the beaten track gear actually had to call the manufacturer about how to operate a power conditioner. Remember, you cannot play THE player.
Your statement, "We believe you..." implies that others are on your side. In fact nobody is on your side. Everyone here can see right through you. Everyone here realizes what kind of person you really are.
I have posted here since 2001, and those that know me can vouch for my credibility. You, on the other hand, have no credibility.
Street credit and proud of it. Notoriety made MSS a $10mil company. We'll need more notoriety to hit 20.
You never really address the issue of the missing serial number.
This is a message I received from TOTEM regarding some speakers being sold at MSS.
Hi,
the units purchased from MSS HIFI came from an unauthorized source and as such we would refuse any warranty and service on the units
we recommend purchasing used product from authorized vendors or from individuals who have the original bill of sale
take care,
TOTEM
My recommendation is to never, every buy from MSS.
More fascist behaviour. We are the leaders of the FREE world. MSS HiFi does not negotiate with terrorists.
You are the leaders of nothing. Listless, and without direction. My only hope for you is that some day you will learn what it means to be fully human. Learn compassion, respect, and love.
Goodbye. I am forever done with you.
The flowers of indulgence and the weeds of yesteryear, they have choked the breath of conscience and good cheer
quote "What this poster failed to disclose is that he's someone Ted Denny of Synergistic sent to find out where we have been getting their products to blow out at a discount."
I call BS.
Is that why you pried the serial number tag off? or do you do that with all your 'new' products?
My Photos
Help find a cure for me! Donate to support IC research and programs
Enough said.
KP
for unsavory sales practices and other issues and being a bad representation of the dealers that SR wants selling their product.The unit you bought was a topic of great discussion at RMAF because no one at SR or anywhere else could figure out where the unit MSS had came from.
I must say I was tempted to buy some ICs from them at one point but after calling them and being very rudely told that no they weren't an authorized dealer and then hung up on, I called Synergistic and got the story about MSS. As much of a good deal some of their things seem.... I'll never buy anything from them.
that if you have emails from MSS stating they bought the item from the factory, and the factory denying it, you have enough material to open a case for fraud somewhere. For all you know, the equipment might've been stolen.
Even if it hasn't, the fact the serial number was missing should in any case have been mentioned, the item cannot be sold "as new".
I never suspected MSS were that shady. That might be the reason why they suddenly changed name. I'll never deal with them.
according to the website the MSS is for Massimo S. Sancrimoni.
http://www.jbaudiopimp.com/meetthestaff.html
a google search turns up nothing on the guy. Neither does a search of http://www.usa-people-search.com/ and that site has just about everybody. This company smells bad. I don't buy anything from companies run by people with italian names due to consistent bad experiences.
Re: Massimo S. Sancrimoni
It's a fictitious name (the last name misspelled, referring to the word sacrimony , defined here ...how does that make you feel?).
His real name is Johnny Yit Boey. Google "Johnny Boey" and view the last link (NSFW).
Brian Walsh
I have known his brother Baba for many years.
If you hover your cursor over "Email Massimo" the status bar says mailto:johnny@msshifi.com
Regards,
Geoff
You have got to be kidding.
John K.
you'd think so but I'm not. Who am I to refuse to learn from my experiences? I don't know squat about names, google thinks it's italian.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia
It's not a coincidence that when Americans think of organized crime they don't think of the British or Germans.
"People with Italian names"? What's next? "People with dark skin"?First of all, this guy is as Italian as my dog, and his name rings so fake it's funny to anybody speaking even basic Italian.
Second, even if he was Italian, for you it means all Italians are crooks?
Please don't spread stupid, racist cliches here. I notice you're unregistered, which is probably not a coincidence.
Jean-Baptiste
Edits: 11/02/09
Well, at least he's honest in some aspects of his being.
Good luck getting this sorted out.
just to bring this back up, and give my own experience...
See below for email transactions between myself and MSS. I started it off by offering 1900 for some Totems listed at 2250
MSS Replied:
Sorry, we do not play the silly discount game. MSS HiFi, Inc. prices
everything to sell. The good news is that we are a very big dealer. If this
particular item is out of your budget, you should definitely check
www.msshifi.com. Chances are that you will find something else that fits
your budget better.
My reply:
I understand completely. I figured it was worth a shot. My wife won't let me spend more than 2000 on speakers, and I would need to drive from Montreal down to your shop to pick them up...Please let me know if you choose to lower the price on these. I have spent a lot of time looking into other speakers, but the sound quality and imaging on the totems is amazing for the price.
Best,
Mss: (who also copied all other employee's (not even bcc)
What is your wife going to do if you spend over $2000? Is she that awesome, impossible to replace? No one is. Even if she is, you should call her bluff and spend $2250 anyway. She will lose and have new-found respect for you.
This piece of valuable advice alone is worth $250. Stop by and pay $2250, and pretend that you spent $2000 for the speakers plus $250 for consultation.
Me: (a week later)
Seriously? A week, and you don't even apologize for what you said? Makes me quite sad.
I will certainly be posting on the forums about this now.
MSS: Yes, please do. We love free publicity. Our business thrives with increased notoriety. You remind me of an ex-girlfriend that keeps coming the more I abuse her. Same concept.
(end quote)
I mean, really? I know he's just trying to get a rise out of me now, and it is almost funny, but what business should EVER speak to a potential customer like that?
Some good deals, yes. But with what I'm reading, it's difficult to believe it's all legit, and clearly quite an a$$hole.
I don't mean to poke fun, MSS' comments in your email exchange are atrocious, but I must admit- they are quite funny.
This guy is quite a character. Kind of like the guy you know in high school who is loads of fun but you would never want your sister to date.
I think I admitted as much. Yeah, kinda funny. And considering I haven't spent any money there, it's really not that big of a deal for me, I just want people to know what they're likely getting themselves into.
At this point, I see him as that crazy, drunk, chauvinist pig uncle who is occasionally a little funny, but is increasingly just very, very sad to be around.
When I worked in hi-fi in the Atlanta area in the 70s, there was a guy who ran "Dirty Don's Warehouse Audio". You can imagine the product and his policies. He had a "30-30" return policy. That meant 30 seconds or 30 feet out the door!
rw
That motto has already been taken by (insert) __.
MSS Hifi sells gray market goods. Many authorized dealers are unloading their goods out the back door and Johnny sells them on MSS Hifi. I am not surprised the serial number is missing- that way, the dealer selling it out the back door cannot be identified.
Dealers going belly up don't usually own the stock anymore.. if they sell it, it is just stolen stuff...
Thus (perhaps) the missing serial #
why do they do that? Surely the offer would be very low. Would they get their costs?
elsewhere.
For me personally, I wouldn't have considered doing business with someone that used to go by the name JB Audio Pimp.
Thank you for posting this. It's very useful information to have. I've seen MSS's ad's on Agon and I buy a lot of stuff there.
Now I will NEVER even bother looking at their ads again, and certainly won't do business there.
I'd be concerned that the unit is stolen with serial numbers scrubbed like that. You may want to contact the NYPD (or wherever you think is appropriate based on MSS' location) to see if anyone reported the item stolen. Maybe MSS is a fence?? I don't know but calling the police is a pretty easy way to find out.
Also, Paypal has some (tedious) remedies for this tyope of fraud even with bank payments. I would do whatever you can to stop payment and report the fraud. Contact your bank if paypal won't play ball.
Vik
My guess is they aren't stolen but it is done to protect the authorized dealers who are selling him product, out the backdoor, in violation of their dealer agreement. It is not unknown or even unusual in this business.
-Wendell
I'll stay clear! I work too hard for my money for that Bullshat!
Stop your credit card and call both the US and NY state attorney general and file a criminal complaint. Mail Fraud is a Federal crime and if he took off the serial number he commited fraud as it was advertised as new.
It was purchased using Paypal with funds from my bank account.
I'm sorry for the hassle you're in, but why on earth people would ever buy anything on the internet with something other than a credit card is beyond me.
I am surprised that an expensive item would not have a serial number located in multiple locations (sticker under the transformer) or some other inconspicuous place. Many times multiple serial numbers are present and if the manuf. did not dislose this, it is a bad business practice. Multiple serial numbers should be hidden about the unit.
---
"So at least [he's] got that going for him."
-Caddyshack
JM
pro se
How many times do we need to be told that if something is too good to be true it probably is. People that buy from MSS know that something is not right but they see the low price and buy from them anyway. Does there really need to be any back and forth about the reputation of a dealer that scrapes the serial #'s off components?
I like the idea of putting the serial # in a few places but I don't think the manufactures have much incentive to stop this behavior. After all, they sell a piece and never have to service it under warranty - good for their bottom line. If the end user community stopped buying from places like MSS this problem would solve itself. I won't hold my breath.
My experience--bought a pair of vintage VTL mono's---clowns packed em' both in the same box.One unit suffered a dent/slash in the faceplate and a broken power switch.I was able to get a 50.00 check from them,the owner was of no help whatsoever.One of the clerical staff was the most helpful of all.Guess I was lucky compared to some.
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