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Fed ex ground just delivered my amp. The packing was better than most I have seen but still fed ex monkeys figured out a way to screw up a vintage piece. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr!http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/files/P83000021.JPG
Follow Ups:
I remember drooling over this anp at Dixi Hi-Fi! It was on closeout but still far beyond my young teenage budget. I think it was playing some Ohm Walsh speakers (I'm not certain of this). The combination sounded quite good. How does it sound? Is it considered valuable?Dave
In my opinion this is one nice vintage amplifier. It's rated at 200wpc in stereo and can be bridged (by a competent technician) to put out 600 watts.The blue dynaco meters are finer looking than any other blue meters out there. Marantz & McIntosh while both have beautiful meters, still do not best the asthetics of these meters.
The rarer dynaco 416 is supposed to be a better amp. I have yet to hear one or even see one in person though.
I remember that that one of these big Dyaco anps had an external upgrade box to the power supply. Do you know anything about this?Dave
There was a c100 external capacitor option for the 416. The stock 20000 mfd supply can be upgraded. My stereo 410 has a upgraded 160000 mfd supply and the amp has greatly improved bass and control.
I have one of those big ole ugly amps in my garage. I installed it in a system for my youngest son's college frat house and it came back dead.Think I should have it fixed? (I do have two Dyna ST-70's being refurbed and chromed etc.) I really forgot about the big 410.
Worth it or not?
Many feel it is the best sounding of the 400 watt Dynas because of the lack of Dynagard, and that always intermittant protection relay. Of course if it goes dc it can burn up your speakers. Always use a 5 amp or lower fast blow speaker fuse. I love mine driving original double Advents.If you do not wish to fix yours Stereotom, I would be interested in it.
Sorry above comment directed at Hepcat
the 410 is the bare bones version of the 400. Ugly, yes ///but still afine sounding amp.
The 410 has 2 advantages over the 400 No Dynagard and no relay. Otherwise identical circuitry in an ugly box.
I personally think the dynaguard and relay are advantages. With as much power as these amps are capable of putting out (600 watts mono!) speaker protection is a good thing. I don't have to worry about my expensive speakers being damaged when the dynaguard is on.I also like the meter option of the st400. Like I said above ...when lit correctly (lamps wired in series to dim them by 50%) the st400's meters are absolutely beautiful.
I think stereo gear has to look good as well as sound good. The st400 does both. I think it's the best looking of the dynaco solid state amps. The 416 is to busy and the 410 is to drab.
Pretty is nice and i love the original 400. I think it has the best cosmetics of all of them. I have owned them all, the 400, 410 and the 416. all I am saying is that the Dynagard puts additional active devices in the signal path including a emitter follower and several op amps. I believe less is more. A fast acting fuse will protect the speaker if the value chosen is conservative.
Shipped a National tuner circa 1955. Lucky I double boxed and packed the crap out of it. It arrived unharmed but one side of the box was missing.
charles
Too bad about your amplifier. I always insist on the seller double boxing heavy items such as amplifiers, receivers, and usually tuners too. If they balk at the time and expense to pack the item properly I ask that they take the item to MailBoxes Etc. or similar and have their people pack it per my instructions at my expense. The best packing directions I have ever seen I received from the Fisher Doctor on how to ship a vintage Fisher tube receiver. I have adapted these instructions for many other types of heavy electronics and have never had a unit damaged in shipping. If UPS and FedEx refused packages unless they were packed to this level of protection, we would all be a lot happier.With credit to Al Pugliese, a.k.a., The Fisher Doctor for providing these instructions:
[To properly ship vintage tube gear, the following procedure has worked for me and is strongly recommended.]
Supplies needed:
- Cellophane tape approx. 2" wide
- Brown paper water activated fiberglass reinforced packing tape approx. 2 3/4" wide
- Bubble wrap, both large and small bubbles
- Appropriate sized box and scrap cardboard sheetsNOTE: NEVER ship a receiver or heavy integrated amp in its cabinet. The formidable weight of these units will almost always cause severe damage to the cabinet. Lighter units such as preamps or tuners can usually be shipped in their cabinets safely if necessary and if propery bolted in. Of course, if sending the unit for service the cabinet is not necessary.
Remove any output tubes. Wrap them with individually in bubble wrap and tape (small size bubbles) and place them on the top of the receiver or amp, nestled neatly in between the components. Some units are too cramped to allow this and these tubes MUST be sent in a separate box. Also remove the fuse and holder (and the control plug on units having this), wrapping it and placing it on top with the tubes. AM antennas are as fragile as glass, and it is also a good idea to remove any AM antenna from it's mount, wrap in bubble wrap, and tuck around on top of set, nestled in between the components - small bubble wrap will work here.Then place the unit on a sheet of bubble wrap (LARGE bubbles!!) that is at least 5 feet long and wide enough to overlap the sides by at least 3 inches. Taping smaller sheets of bubble wrap together to make large sheets is perfectly acceptable! Wrap the unit so most of the wrap overlaps the front face of the unit. Tape it up tightly, folding the corners and taping them tightly closed. Be careful of the side where the tuning capacitor pulley is located. You should now have a neat, TIGHT package with lots of padding. Feel free to tape additional bubble wrap to the front, top or sides if you feel it needs a little more padding. Better safe than sorry!
Now get some cardboard sheets and cut them to the width of the unit and long enough so you can fold them all around the unit to form a "psuedo box". Use WIDE cellophane packing tape to bind it TIGHTLY in place. The cardboard must cover the face, top and rear of the unit at least, and preferrably even the bottom if you have enough. I normally cut sheets that are large enough to cover the top and be bent across the face, then another that covers the bottom and is bent up across the rear. Wide cellophane tape tightly binds the "bundle" together. Smaller side pieces of cardboard should be taped in place to cover the sides. As an alternative, you may use a "real" box in which the bubble wrapped unit will fit REAL TIGHTLY into. The top, face, and rear of the unit are most suceptible to damage, so the well padded unit must fit tightly on ALL sides, top and bottom. If needed, cut this inner box down to make it VERY snug, taping it up as necessary.
Now you need to get a shipping box large enough to hold the bundle. Double corregated is the best bet, and UPS usually sells these for around $5-$6. Otherwise, find a box that would provide at least 3-4 inches of clearance ALL around the unit. A properly packaged unit should fit in a box that is approximately 24 inches wide X 22 inches front to back, and 20 inches deep. First place a layer of styrofoam peanuts in the box to the level required so the unit will be centered. Now cut a flat cardboard sheet as close as possible to the dimensions of the inside of the box. Place this cardboard "floor" on top of the peanuts. Then place the unit on top of this. Now continue to pour in the peanuts to JUST cover the unit. Stuff the peanuts TIGHTLY all around, especially in the corners. You will be amazed at the quantity of peanuts that are going to vanish down those corners as you stuff, stuff stuff!!! Remember, the more peanuts, the more impact resistance! Once you feel it is sufficiently stuffed, and the peanuts are just level with the top of the bubble wrapped unit, place another cardboard on top of this as a top "floor". These bottom and top "floors" will prevent the unit from shifting around and provide excellent impact resistance. Now, finish the job by filling the rest of the box with peanuts, again, stuffing the corners and sides TIGHTLY. When filled, the box should be a little difficult to close. This is what you want, a TIGHT package. Use a small amount of cellophane tape to tack the top closed.
Now take the water activated fiberglass reinforced sealing tape and cut strips long enough to seal the top and bottom of the box. Wet a sponge and slide the tape across the sponge to wet it, DO NOT run it under water! NOTE: This stuff will NOT stick well to cellophane tape, so if it is a used box, old cellophane tape MUST be removed. Cut enough strips of the brown sealing tape to cover the ENTIRE top and bottom of the box, making them long enough to lap over the edges to approximately halfway down the sides. This stuff is extremely strong and can also be used to augment the strength of the box itself, or to make minor repairs to any weak or soft spots. Clearly address the box with a permanent marker.
You will note I keep emphasizing tightness. This is VERY important and will prevent shifting and provide maximum impact resistance.
Using this procedure, I have shipped everything from small tuners to 75lb amplifiers everywhere in the world and have NEVER sustained even the slightest loss. Yes, it is a VERY time consuming procedure but in order to ship something so heavy yet so fragile, it is necessary. The degree of compromise to this procedure will be offset by the amount of damage the unit may sustain in shipment. Be aware not all parts are available should the unit get damaged, ESPECIALLY cosmetic parts like knobs and dial glasses. ALL carriers use automated package handling systems and boxes are moved by conveyor systems and may be subjected to dropping and crushing, this cannot be avoided - it can only be planned for!
Although marking the package "FRAGILE" does little or nothing to ensure it is handled better, it may help the claims process with the carrier should damage occur.
The use of HARD packing materials such as folded cardboard, HARD styrofoam sheets or blocks, and other like materials is NOT recommended as they do nothing to absorb shock. Due to their hardness, these materials transmit shock directly to the unit and usually cause severe damage.
Conversly, the use of materials that are too SOFT is not recommended. Soft foam rubber is an example. Materials like foam are way too soft and do little to absorb shock. They usually transmit shock directly to the unit since they collapse substantially under impact. Neither of these materials were designed for packing such delicate yet heavy items and should be avoided!
If this procedure sounds like a lot of work, it is. It normally takes me a minimum of two hours to pack a piece of Hi-Fi gear such as a receiver for shipment. The effort is definitely worthwhile. The loss of a unit (and aggravation of filing a claim) or the expense of damage repair is the alternative. Remember that all carriers handle millions of packages. To think that YOUR package will be treated "special" in any way is folly. YOU are the primary key in assuring safe shipping of your classic Hi-Fi gear. Good packing and common sense will ensure a safe trip. Also, never pack more than one unit in a box.
One final Note - No matter how well you pack, ALWAYS purchase enough insurance to cover the REPLACEMENT cost of your equipment.
Will all respect to Al, foam peanuts,IMO,are worthless when dealing with heavy items such as amps. The weight of the item inevitably causes the item to shift in the box, displacing the peanuts and exposing a corner to damage such as this. It is my experience that the key to succesfully shipping amps, etc. is to totally immobilize the unit buy encasing it in a full 2" of high density foam board as available at Home Depot/Lowes etc. After surrounding the item with cushioning one must be absolutely certain that a correctly fitting box is fitted to the piece. I have found that the only way to obtain a tight fitting carton is to obtain oversize cardboard material and with a sharp box knife, straight edge a hot glue gun fabricate a suitible double-walled container. Plan on spending an hour of your time and a $10-15 for your glue, tape, etc. Price your item accordingly and always take a couple of pics while packing the unit in the event of catastrophic damage. I suspect even a bulletproof pack job could be destroyed by an 18 wheeler backing over it several times.
If this seems like overkill, or simply too much work, I respectfully submit that these vintage pieces deserve to be treated as audio history, not dumpster diver treasures. We won't have this hobby if our "treasures" keep getting wasted buy automated shipping equipment.
I for one feel it's worth the effort.
Enjoy it while we can.
When they pack the original box, they use rigid not peanuts. Of course they probably move about on pallets and don't experience the soccer, basketball effect.The little bit of shipping I have done,(2 receivers) I've used the rigid styrofoam, and I put about 4 in. around every side with 2 in. top and bottom.If I had something really heavy, like an amp,I'd go with 4 in. all around.If they're going to catapult it the length of a semi-trailer truck, all bets are off though.You need somebody who gives a shit.
Packing it snug probably helped on the first receiver , on the second there was just a slight movement and the result was the dial pointer fell off-but this may have happened, regardless.I should have shimmed it with newspaper or something such.Or maybe even stuffing peanuts inside the rigid styrofoam.
Home Depot and Lowes sold me damaged rigid house insulation at a reduced price(4 ft.x8 ft.x1 in. for $2),so some savings can be had, if you ask.
Agreed. Also, if shipping a piece of McIntosh equipment such as the amplifier shipped by the poster of this thread, know that McIntosh sells replacement shipping boxes(I think) and wooden shipping pallet inserts(I am pretty sure) that allow the amplifier to be bolted to the wooden base for shipping. The correct shipping box and pallet would be an excellent way to help protect these extra heavy units.
Hard to fix THAT damage. If you do get stuck with keeping the amp, I guess you could put the amp in a nice wood case with a frame around the front of the case that would cover the damage. There is nothing near the edges on either side of the front panel, so a wide wood frame is very doable and would look cool not wierd. Hey, the wood case might totaly offset the reduced value caused by the damage.
Don't these people know how to treat packages? I have had better luck sending the stuff parcel post or priority mail. I sort of gave up on the whole UPS/Fedex fiasco. I have yet (knock on wood) to have gear damaged shipping it that way. Luckily some of my best gear that I ordered had the best packaging. My MCS 3125 was double boxed. It was bubble wrapped surrounded in foam, then put in a relatively thin box, then that was put inside another box surrounded by foam. Arrived perfectly. My Fisher RS-1060 was shipped in this giant box from a grill, wrapped in bubble wrap about a dozen times, then surrounded by foam and pellets. My Audiograph 2A100 despite its less then stellar working order at the time of purchase was shipped in a double walled box from a toilet, bubble wrapped, and surrounded with foam pellets. My GTE 2600 was taped between 1 1/2 inch thick styrofoam, then surrounded by newspapers. Packaging has a lot to do with it, UPS especially is not easy on boxes. If its valuable, request packaging you think adequate even if it costs you extra it is worth it. I am greatful my sellers when to extra lengths to get the stuff here in good working order.
...this box was a heavy duty computer monitor box WITH HANDLES and the packing was incredibly adequate ...yet the heavy duty, thick faceplate corner was still ruined.My friend assured me that the box was perfect when he packed it.
When it arrived all four bottom corners were obviously smashed in on the cardboard box.
These guys simply do not give two shits about the contents of the bos. They throw it, kick it, drop it over and over and over. The only time they take care to place it gently is at it's final destination.
Do you think there are any NOS st400 w/meters faceplates out there??? No way!!!!! Even a used one will be incredibly difficult to find.
Luckily, the amp was insured for $500. I filed a claim for $500. We'll see what happens next.
My understanding is that UPS is about throughput, not gentleness. In college years ago, they had a rep as a good paying job, but they busted your ass to move the goods. Fast, not gentle, keeps your job.
I'm going thru the same thing with a receiver I shipped via fedex ground a couple of weeks ago to a buyer 1700 miles away - I've shipped approx. 150-200 components via fedex without damage until this latest incident - there's no doubt they abuse packages
If you used Fedex Ground you will most likely get a settlement. UPS will not settle come Hell or High Water. They will blame it on the packing reguardless of how well it is packed.Hell You could place something small in a box that a full size freezer came out of, fill it full of peanuts and pack it WELL with bubble wrap. UPS would still find a way to destroy it and blame it on the packing. A few years ago I order some photographic paper and it was shipped by UPS. They tore open the box it came in plus the paper box and the black plastic that keeps the paper from being exposed. Funny thing about this is the box is the same box that Kodak uses to ship all their paper. UPS denied the claim..Harry
OK, at least the guy at the UPS Customer counter was honest. I just sold and packaged a hefty DOA parts unit Sansui 9090 for shipment from CT to TN. Since the size of this monster kind of negates double boxing, I bought an oversized double wall cardboard box from UPS, and wrapped the receiver with about a 2 inch per side mummy of 1 inch bubble wrap and surrounded that with 4 inches of foam insulation, left over from a buddy who "sink proofed" his 1969 19 ft Starcraft Holiday with. So, me a member of the ceramic back club, have a buddy help me bring the 64 lb package to the UPS counter. I marked the package "Fragile" and proceeded to hoist it onto the counter, which was about 3 feet above the concrete floor. So Mr UPS says, "hmmmm. fragile huh?" Yes, its a vintage amplifier/receiver. "So you wouldnt mind if I pushed the package on to the floor right now?" Why? "Well just to let you know, you can expect this happen about 6 to 8 times before your package arrives in TN!So you are absolutely sure it's packaged correctly? Otherwise, if it's not, your insurance claim will be void." Myself I says, its packed better than most, and although you say it might be dropped 6 or 8 times from a 3 foot height, why make it 9? Arrggggghhhh........
I heard once that UPS expects not only that your package survives the 15 foot (yep) fall off a belt, but the impact of the bowling ball that follows it?????They also have a "fine print" disclaimer clause that states all electronics must be shipped in "the original cartons". Try that on your estate sale treasure!
Fedex doesn't seem to have those issues and covers up to $100 by default w/o extra charges. You do have to have 2" padding on all sides though. I've had two claims on stuff we've shipped, but both were paid up in full because we did our job packing.
If you paid for the extra coverage and it was packed properly, I'd file. even if you didn't, I'd file for the $100.00 and look for a new faceplate or parts amp.
Good Luck!
$100 will hardly even buy a set of knobs for these amps.NOS faceplates are impossible to find. The only way to bring it back to it's original condition before fedex dropped it, is to buy a used amp in non working condition. They're around $250 - $300!
The amp was packed well. The box damage shows that it was dropped repeatedly. If it wasn't packed well this 57 lb amp would have been a pile of parts when it arrived.
You said above that it was insured for $500, so you may be alright. You'll need to keep the original packing and may have to send it back to them for inspection. You also may need to provide some valuation for the replacement parts or repair, but if they are as rare as you say, that should be fairly simple; an auction or a shop estimate will do.
My wife had a porcelain figurine damaged by Fedex (separated from it's chair) and they covered the full $300.00, plus the buyer got to keep the damaged item. Sure it wasn't perfect, but a bit of superglue made it whole. Hopefully you'll get your $500.00 AND the amp; you may have to jump through some hoops though.
"Fedex doesn't seem to have those issues and covers up to $100 by default w/o extra charges. You do have to have 2" padding on all sides though."
I think UPS has this too.At least that's what I was told by an independant shipping outfit ,who sent my stuff via UPS.Each additional $100 of insurance costs $1.I always shudder at the thought of trying to collect, though.
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