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In Reply to: Re: 300B and SE amps posted by Robert H. on October 01, 2002 at 17:34:32:
I had this same thought; all I really need is a few good watts; with the grace inherent in triodes and their almost magic dynamic power output, this may be just the ticket!!! Thanks, Robert. Chris
Follow Ups:
I've heard Andy Bartha's custom 45 monoblocs on Avantgarde DUOs and I've heard the Supratek 45/2A3 Monoblocs on Medallion IIs w/Lowther DX4s and I think it comes down to what type of music you listen to and at what volume you prefer to listen at.If you like dynamic music played between 90-100+ db and/or in a larger room, you might be running out of gas on certain passages with those 1-2w. Remember, you need a little bit of reserve too. If you listen more quietly, say 80-90 db and/or in a somewhat smaller room, then sure, the 45 will do fine.
I'm not knocking the 45 tube, but just mentioning that people need to be aware of its limitations and just because you have 102 db efficient speakers, doesn't mean that those two watts are going to get you concert sound levels on certain types of music.
Take care, Chris
Chris-- I like to play rather loud music, and my listening room is huge. If I were to try 45s, It would be, I'm sure, the best 1-2 watts on the planet; but I would hate to commit and wish I could dial them up to 11... to quote Nigel Tufnel... Thanks!! Chris S
but with factory made amps and for people who aren't into ripping things apart and modding them, one is stuck with the design.Regarding AB's 45 amps, I really can't recall what he used for the driver stage, but he did have some small nine pins as inputs 12AX7s and some 1929 45 globes who's name escapes me--Jubilee or something like that.
As for Jean's Supratek amp, he's got some RCA/Cunninghams and the driver is an odd GE Five Star 9 pin and I have no idea if it's sufficient or not. We ran this amp with my Ken Rad 2A3s and some Full Music 2.5v 300Bs and for each step closer to the 45, we got more of the magic, but there's a penalty to pay, no doubt.
Like I said, if one is a rocker, has a big room, or just likes cranking the complex orchestral passages, just audition first, is all I'm saying.
Good luck, Chris
A lot of people using the 45 are picking up used pairs of Globes off Ebay or wherever. Unfortunately, those virtually all come from old radios - generally 1930's tombstones, and are very heavily used. A 25% or 30% drop in transconductance is a lot when dealing with 2 watts! So many people run out of steam due to this.The Vaic/EML 45 seems to be a bit more powerful, maybe has more headroom.
But where I strongly disagree with you - rock has the LEAST need for dynamic headroom, as it has relatively peaks and even those are not very big. Just look at any rock recording on a scope. Flat earth. Now classical is another matter, it of course is compressed somewhat but still has greater peaks.
So for rock - no problem. You can crank it. Classical may be more difficult. But still, 102 dB is so efficient that it's not possible to be worried about lacking headroom if the overall system gain isn't a limiting factor.
I put my buddy Jean, from down here via France, in touch with you a few weeks back. I guess one of his tubes went noisey, so maybe what you say is true about them. He likes listening to Classical, Jazz and EuroRock at pretty good volumes and he's noticed some limitations at these level, but he does concur that they really do get the 'music' right when not pushed beyond their limits.Chris
Having lived with 10/10Y/801A SETs and 100 db speakers, I can testify to the above. That said, there *are* limits to 1.5 watts. The volume is there, but there is a sense of a glass ceiling (for lack of a better description) one is aware of. It may be psychological, but one is aware of a lack of headroom.
enjoy,
Jack
This is a common misconception. Gain can be an issue, not power output. If you have two watts or thirty watts, but insufficient gain, it's a problem.It's a case of how the 45 is driven. The 45 tube has very low gain in of itself, very low gain even for a triode. So the driver must be chosen with care.
I use a preamp in front of my 45 amp to put some decent gain on the signal. And I can blow the neighbors away with nothing near 102 dB efficient speakers. At higher SPL's I may compress on very peaky passages, I suppose. But I never notice a lack of power when I need it.
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