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Where can I find these cheaply?
Follow Ups:
Yes, one can get a "good deal" on eBay, but I almost always find that the tubes are not quite as advertised, at best. Recently I bought a quartet of Raytheon 6SN7WGTs. The seller admitted that one of them was marginal but claimed the others were "good". I find the reverse; only one of the 4 tubes is worth saving from the trash. I am currently awaiting the sellers response to my request for a full refund. This is only the worst case; all of my recent purchases (of 12AT7s and 12AU7s) off eBay have been disappointing, too, although not as nasty as this latest one. IMO you are better off in the long run purchasing tested, selected tubes from a known reputable dealer, even if you pay a little more.
Talk about it before in previous listing...Mr. Leung having 19 negative and 10 neutral feedbacks, 2 user names still running a properous business. What else can I say?Basically you're referring to small tubes which have longer life, which I found not too much trouble. For power tubes, the situation would be worse e.g. smoked clear glass with sign of overheating, marginal tubes, Siemens EL34 sold at TFK tube price level. Overall speaking, I find the tubes on Ebay are cheaper except that you have to take your chances. Obviously, you can find better tubes in Tubeworld but $$$$???
While I have done ok for some tubes, and met some people who do seem like folks I would like to know, I have also gotten screwed several times by a__holes I would like to stone. Strangely, these jerks were folks with lots of A++++++++++++ ratings. I think lots of people are afraid to make the negative comment when it is due. Pay attention to the relevant negative feedback. I have chalked up some negatives from jerk sellers who have retaliated because I gave them bad FB for being jerk sellers.
Lew, you are absolutely right. Ebay has many good honest sellers and just as many not.A few hints to Ebay buyers:
When the seller says "tests good" or "test as new" that means the tubes are very heavily used. If they clearly state the tubes are used, give solid test measurements, and tell you how much use they have, and you get them very cheap (like a few bucks), ok, otherwise - let another sucker have 'em.
When the tubes are not in their original boxes, or in boxes that look too good to be true, you are buying someone's used tubes. Bulk pack is BS. Only large dealers got bulk packs. The bulk packs were cases of 200, 300 tubes. They don't have 'em on Ebay.
Guaranteed to not be DOA is no guarantee at all. Tubes will light up long after they are useless for audio purposes. At 20% decline from new most tubes are getting sonically dull, if not noisy. Many octals have begun to show cathode stripping at that point.
Ignore feedback unless negative. Positive feedback shows that there are a lot of suckers, and no one leaves negative feedback anymore due to fear of retaliatory feedback.
Ask the seller questions. Ask for measurements. Ask if they are really NOS. Ask if they are noisy. Ask where he got them! If you don't get knowledgeable, friendly, complete answers, run.
Hi Guys, I bought a pair of RCA 6CG7/6FQ7 on E-bay. The photo showed two RCA boxes and one tube. The tube was a Cleartop. By the way, these tubes were sold as NOS. I get the tubes and one is the Cleartop, the other one isn't. It also looks used, compared to other NOS that I have bought. The seller says that he never claimed they were Cleartops. I said that the one he showed lead me to believe that the other would be the same. Well he offered to exchange the tube or refund my money. He was concerned about bad feedback. I exchanged the single tube and received a Cleartop this time. Oh his excuse was that he hadn't looked in the other box. Yeah right! In my mind, the final clincher was that he stated that the used tube tested well enough, to be sold as NOS. For the few dollars more, I now buy all my tubes from reputable dealers.
Jeff
...this is very good advice. Nice post.I have received some good deals through Ebay, and have been burned a few times as well. There wasn't much money involved, but the principle of the thing pisses me off. I've gotten to the point where I won't even bid on a tube that is listed as used, or "used, tests good", and bid only on tubes listed as NOS. And then, should I win the auction, I inform the seller (prior to sending money) that if I see even the slightest hint of use on the tube when I receive it, or it doesn't test out similar to a new tube on my tester, I'll send it back and expect a full refund, including shipping. I've had two instances where the seller declines to honor the auction after this notice, with an excuse to the effect of "I don't sell to jerks". Negative feedback? You betcha. :-)
I too have bought tubes from E-bay, well i haven't got a tester and take the chance. If i do get BAD tubes i won't know, but the BAD ones i may get will still cost less than a tube tester.How does one do a visual for a NOS tube beside the flashing on the top. A small signal tube may be used for a few hundred hours and the flashing may still look as NOS. Those with apperent more use shows some disclouration?
Can on tell from the mica spacers or dark circles around the pins?
Any visual checks for NOS for "tube dummies" like myself?
How does one do a visual for a NOS tube...As Robert states, it all depends. In addition to the telltale signs he noted, look for discoloration of the printing on power tubes (Genalex printing, for example, discolors after less than 100 hours use). Look for any dark spots on the glass (6BQ5's do this almost as a rule, and again, even after very light use).
The best way to learn visual clues of usage is to look at the tubes currently in your system. The lack of a visual clue does not guarantee that the tube is unused, but by the same token, any discoloration/loss of getter/darkened mica/etc is a sure sign that the tube is not NOS.
As far as a tube tester, Robert's logic is spot on. If you're buying tubes from a reputable dealer, then having a tester is more of a luxury than a necessity. If, however, you're buying tubes from unknown or questionable sources (like Ebay), then a tester becomes almost mandatory, in my opinion. Perhaps your components will deal with a shorted tube by blowing a fuse. Perhaps not. And if not, consider the cost of replacing or repairing a toasted component versus the cost of a tester.
if one is going to be buying/collecting more than a few tubes and tube types, a tester is almost mandatory and given the prices for classic tubes these days, pretty cheap comparitively speaking.At first I picked up a crappy old Sencor Mighty Mite VI from my union projectionist, but this is pretty much a waste. Last week, I found a Triplett 3423 on Ebay in pretty good shape and picked it up. I know there are better tube testers out there, but for under $200, it seems to be a prudent move. Heck, I just got a five pack of US Amperex white label PQ 7308s and paid more than that and I sold two to a nice fellow, but I would have loved to have been able to match them for him at no charge.
I don't know at what point one should dive into a nice tester, but I figure that where I'm at: 50 6DJ8 types, 50 6SN7s, 20 12A*7s, 8+ x 6550s, 6550Cs, KT88s and KT90s, $213 delivered is money well spent for a tool I should own.
Chris
There are visual checks but this varies from tube to tube and brand to brand. You need to have a good bit of experience in some cases, and visual is not reliable.For example, many small signal tubes, particularly Telefunkens but others also, will show a faint light browning at the base with even minor use. Extensive use will show a blackening at the base. The getter will stay perfect until death.
Power tubes will show significant patchy deterioration of the getter. The edges of the getter may also become discolored, although this can also happen just due to age.
Some tubes will acquire deposits on the micas, others have darker micas when new, others will never get any deposits.
There are as many different indicators as there are tubes.
You must ask yourself this:
Do the bad tubes you get combined with the many used tubes end up costing you less than if you had bought all those tubes new from a good dealer AND bought a tube tester? You say no.
The truth is yes. Suppose cars had no odometer. Someone sells you one as new, you get it for half the cost of new, and it looks new and drives great. But it really has 100,000 miles on it and within a month the brakes, transmission and muffler fail. Within 6 months, general wear is causing engine problems and it doesn't drive too good. After a miserable year it dies. Yes, you got it for half price. You got a year out of it. If you paid the new price, you would get 6 years. Bargain? You tell me.A used Telefunken ECC83 may sound lousy already and last another year. You get it on Ebay for, say, $50. You buy a new one from a good dealer for $100. Not only do you get 10 years, but it has been tested for noise and microphony. No need to do the math.
Oh, and you will know bad tubes, particularly if you compare it to a new one. It will sound dull and lifeless. And you may need to get some equipment repair...
Believe me, if I don't get a fair deal from the guy who auctioned those Raytheons, he WILL get negative feedback. I do not fear retaliation. There are gray areas in this type of bartering, so I would be reluctant to defame a seller except in extreme cases, and this is one such.
So far I only bought a few tubes from e-bay.
3 RCA 12au7 clear top for $ 10.00 + shipping.
All tested very high on my tube tester.Only small disapointment was a Amperex PQ 12au7 typ that measure only 85 %, but seller stated that this tube was used. Sold for under $ 10.00
Guess so far I just been lucky.
Remember that different manufacturer's tubes will test differently as NOS. While a new Telefunken ECC82 will always test over 120%, a new Tungsol 12AU7 will usually test between 95 and 100, and a new Amperex 12AU7 often tests at or slightly below 100%. Of course, this varies as to batch, date, etc..,only seeking to confuse things further!
I bought a quad of gem mint NOS RCA Cleartops with crisp, clean boxes for $35 delivered on Ebay and sold by ClassicValves, now of Tampa. I don't have any gear that uses them, so I can't comment on their sound.Chris
I bought some of those from him, too and they are the real deal. I bought some NOS Amperex 7316 from another source and they just sound very ordinary. I bought some RFT 12AU7 that were used, but were tested and came with measurements. They were in white boxes and they sound fantastic. I guess it is just a jungle out there.
Brothermannow enjoying peace and quiet after running a chainsaw all day.
You got a great deal for these wonderful tubes. $48 + $4.50 shipping for NOS matched-quad is the best price I could get, although mine were not purchased on Ebay. Bought new Svetlana KT88 matched quad for $124 on Ebay though, a pretty good deal.
ja in lovely, Tucson AZ
Try finding old shops or flea-markets, you may get good prices.. how about 3 sleeves NOS RCA 12AU7A cleartops for US$3.00 a piece -15 tubes-, tested in front of you... or Mullard GZ-34 NOS for $8.00 (yes, they are the real thing, the codes and characteristics do match)... probably better than going back in time.
fun. I would love to find some GZ-34's like that. The other day I found a sleeve of 12AT7's Sylvania gold pin in crisp new boxes for a very, very good price. Now if I could figure out hot to use them.
I also got 9 VT231's about the same way.When I was a radioman all we used was tubes. I wish somehow I had a desire for tubes then. Millions of tubes to pick from. What fun!
ja in very rainy Tucson, AZ
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