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In Reply to: I hate it when tube gear is called.... posted by Russ57 on August 31, 2004 at 13:38:21:
The highs were more detailed and brighter, but the problem was that they caused a tremendous amount of listener fatigue. I hope this doesn't sound simple-minded, but I use a simple test when listening to new equipment. Namely, I do some reading while listening. If something extraordinary happens, either good or bad (sound-wise), I'll look up and take note. With the original brighness, I couldn't even get back to reading.Have a few hundred hours on the components.
Also, I don't want to make you think that things are absolutely terrible now. Putting the RCA's in the Rogues make listening very pleasurable. Am just looking to fine-tune.
Follow Ups:
Hmmm. Your replies have me thinking in two directions.One; the guy has put down some serious coin on some newer stereo stuff, maybe moving to tubes for the first time, and isn't used to the profound difference he is hearing in the way better tube gear "demands" your attention and refuses to allow that book a rat's ass chance of holding your attention.
Two; something ain't right.
So: Radio shack had a dB meter....guess they still do....there are some web sites on needed changes. It will give you a baseline. Is it your ears or the equipment/room/etc? Perhaps the answer might be acoustical treatment....who knows(besides a nice oriental rug might score points on WAF). Point is it might be cheaper/faster/etc. to test and find out. If results show a problem you can then decide to test further or address the symptoms. A tone generator, scope, and dummy load resistor along with looking at the dB meter readings in room (using a test CD or tone generator) will pin point equipment problems and let you see if your system doesn't have a flat response.
I know all of this sounds like a lot to go through....and it is...but something seems rather wrong here if you are experiencing listener fatigue. But do be advised that some tube gear grabs you by da balls and demands your attention. On the right music it makes the hairs stand up on your neck, gives you goose bumps, and makes even the most macho men occasionly have to wipe a tear:)
I wish you the best of luck in finding satisfaction with your system.
Russ
"One; the guy has put down some serious coin on some newer stereo stuff, maybe moving to tubes for the first time, and isn't used to the profound difference he is hearing in the way better tube gear "demands" your attention and refuses to allow that book a rat's ass chance of holding your attention."Russ,
I think I may have made myself misunderstood. When I FIRST got the amps, I was truly amazed at the depth, dynamics, quietness, all that really good stuff that is supposed to come with tubes. The difference was astounding...it really was! The "brightness thing," tho, was getting to me. NOW, NOW since I rolled the tubes, the brightness has settled down and I no longer look up from the book in disappointment, but rather in wonder. I am not NOW experiencing listener fatigue. My original post had to do with where to start to fine tune the system.I do own the Radio Shack SPL meter and just for the heck of it, tested the response from my listening position from 250Hz to 10KHz just before this post.
There was no more than a 4db difference thruout that range, the largest difference being a 3db rise at 8KHz.Below is a link to picture of my system (with the old amp). As you can see, room treatment is not too much of an issue.
Just as a side note: The amazing thing about this forum is that folks like you are willing to stick with someone and offer valuable help. That is truly appreciated.
As you said I was just trying to stick with you and help as much as I could. It looks like you made wise choices on what tubes to replace with what. And yes, this asylum is an awesome resource and can save one a lot of time, money, and effort. Occasionally it's hard to tell which advice to take but that's audio for ya.
Russ
Yes, am very happy now:) At least now I have a baseline to do comparisons.
Thanks again Russ
and the third option: some tube gear just sounds crappy with the wrong set of inputs, and surroundings.I'd rather have the PM900 than the MC75's I traded for them. THe Mc's were just plain. The Carver at least had tungsten-carbide balls under its hood. Now I rather still the sack of green I got for the Mc's, which funded some truly awesome stuff.
regards,
Douglas
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