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In Reply to: 12au7 Brimar or Radiotechnique posted by MRtubes on November 01, 2002 at 20:11:51:
A difficult question to answer, Brimar made many different versions of the 12AU7 depending on vintage, many later ones were sourced from inferior foreign sources. Early Brimars are fantastic tubes - meaning 1950's. Early 60's stuff is not too bad either. 1970's production is not as god, still better than any modern make. Radiotechnique made two common versions, the earlier one with smaller plates being a richer sounding tube, but both versions are pretty good.If the Brimar are British production, sure, both the Brimar and RTC for a very good price are good tubes.
Follow Ups:
Every Brimar CV4003 I have seen have had plates, glass, codes, everything consistent with any other Brimar made in England. If they say "Brimar Foreign" that of course is a different story. But maybe I missed something. The 70's Brimar are excellent and consistent.
I have here Brimar CV4003 with smooth plates, ribbed plates, with usual Brimar date codes, and without. A lot of variation in production.And the CV4003 was far from the only Brimar branded 12AU7 type - there are early long plate D-getter 6067's and 12AU7's, large O-getter and small O-getter versions, short plate versions - like with Mullard, a lot of different versions. By the 1970's, with production winding down, Brimar was not alone in sometimes sourcing from foreign sources. While they seen to have been pretty good about marking 'foreign made' on such tubes, it's not always the case.
To simply say "all Brimars are very consistent" doesn't really tell the story. I agree that Brimar 12AU7 variants are all, to varying degrees, pretty good sounding tubes. But there are some which are much, much better sounding than others - and usually the better ones are earlier.
Just because2 tubes are marked Brimar CV4003 doesn't mean they sound the same. Like the Mullard box plates, where the 60's ones are practically indistinguishable from late 70's/early 80's ones - but the later ones sound rather poor, and the earlier ones are ok.
< < By the 1970's, with production winding down, Brimar was not alone in sometimes sourcing from foreign sources. While they seen to have been pretty good about marking 'foreign made' on such tubes, it's not always the case. > >
Sadly people might read the wrong message into your comments. And of course on the net it will live forever.
I personally have never seen a Brimar tube outsourced that was not labeled "Foreign". It's a Brimar or it isn't. I have never ever seen a Brimar CV4003 that was not made by them. So to say "many later ones were sourced from inferior foreign sources." does not apply from my experience. What did they relabel? Got any?
or if you've just misread the original post and the context it gives my comments.The original post asked about Brimar 12AU7, and you seem to want to talk only about Brimar CV4003's, even though I am replying in the context of overall Brimar production. I really don't know what the problem is, I don't see any Brimar CV4003 listed on your site.
And, sadly, people might then take your narrow comments and apply them more broadly, which would be wrong.Yes, Kevin, I have seen and have many Brimar tubes made not in the UK and not labelled 'foreign made', among them, some Russian 6V6GT, some US 6L6G, some East European 12AU7. If you want some to verify yourself, try Bugleman, he has lots.
To be clear once again, I said the following:
Brimar made good tubes. Early ones are generally better, particularly in the case of 12AU7 variants.
There are different constructions of Brimar CV4003 labelled tubes, and vintages. So it is incorrect to say they are uniformly consistent. I have here a very nice smooth plate Brimar CV4003. I have early ones and later ones. All sound different.
Early on Brimar didn't source any tubes they made from foreign sources, as production started to wind down, and Brimar consolidated their production, lines closed and outsourcing increased. Brimar still exists today, by the way, it's quite easy to get information.
I said clearly that Brimar were better than most at marking tubes as 'foreign made', but to say they always did is flat out false. Sometimes it was only marked on the boxes, not the tubes - I have 6X4's here like that.
I hope this clear it up for you.
when you said
" Brimar made many different versions of the 12AU7 depending on vintage, many later ones were sourced from inferior foreign sources. "I have yet to see one, and anything they didn't make was usually tagged as such. That's all. I guess maybe I don't have them on my website. Thanks for pointing that out.
And as to Bugleman...There are more than a couple people that make reproduction Mullard and Brimar boxes...then all you need is an ink stamp for the tubes. But I know you know that being you been around the block as they say...
of course you won't have them, because you don't sell such stuff. That doesn't mean they aren't around.Remember, when I post such information here, it's not to be a pimple on the butt of good dealers like yourself. It's because, with good tubes becoming harder to get and the dominance of Ebay, where all sorts of stuff gets posted as legitimate, it's very easy for many people to get tubes that aren't exactly as they expect. Some of it actually came from the branded companies, near the end - you know, I can take a Telefunken ECC802S from the 60's and pair it with one from the 70's - and they sound the same, incredible consistency. Mullard not so, nor RCA or Sylvania, etc., people do need to be aware that tubes from a maker with different vintages can sound quite different.
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