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In Reply to: Come on now... posted by ducati on May 29, 2003 at 06:35:07:
If the reviewer stated he has listened to the other speakers, identified the context and systems in which he listened to them, and stated his impressions vs the B&Ws, it wouldn't have cause disagreements from other posters.To say other speakers are similar is quite a stretch.
Also, to say a pair of speakers is good enough to tell the differences among cables, etc... simply means it's barely better than the worst junks out there: IMO It's quite an easy feat for a speaker to reflect change in cabling and upstream components.
Another point, I'm just curious, I believe there is only one ExcelArray in existence (owned by BradV, designed by Rick Craig). What's the context in which you listened to the ExcelArray vs the B&W 604? Can you elaborate on how similar they sound?
Follow Ups:
> > > Another point, I'm just curious, I believe there is only one ExcelArray in existence (owned by BradV, designed by Rick Craig). What's the context in which you listened to the ExcelArray vs the B&W 604? Can you elaborate on how similar they sound?Actually, someone from Denver took delivery of a pair of Excelarray's a little over a month ago.
Also, Bombaywalla stated "Well, as it so happens, I auditioned all the speakers I listed at the time I was planning a speaker purchase & due to (mostly) budget reasons ended up buying the 604S2 speakers."
I must be confused on this point, as he didn't audition the Newforms or Excelarray before he had the 604S2's. These were all listened to after he had his speakers.
Have a great day,
Brad V,2nd correction correctly pointed out! These 2 speakers were "auditioned" after my purchase.
That "similar products" category has landed me in some heat! Maybe I should have written "other products auditioned" & "post purchase auditions"!
I'll remember that for the next time.
You cannot say that something is similar to something which is superior and it is ok.It is wrong to make an assumption which is incorrect.
They are not similar in anyway to the Nautilus line or Martin Logans.
If we are going to do reviews, lets do them properly so future readers are not thinking: Hey I can save $4000 and get a pair of 604's instead of the N804's, after all they are similar.
Or lets scrap the review section and start a new one,
Subjective tests, In my opinion, Ignorant reviews welcome here.....Lets be objective when we review and honest. And quit trying to justify what we buy as perfect becuase in reality that is all we could afford and if we could afford more like I am sure if this poster could have, he would have bought the Nautilus series or Martim Logans and then his review would have probally stated "Far superior to the 604's. Cleaner more Open"............and so on.
But often we justify something that really is not because we try to convice our selves that more money will not necessarily get a better product which in the audio world is often not true.
As you spend you get better, and yes I believe there is a point of diminishing returns.
Omega14:6,You seem to have a bad attitude & a problem with comprehension!!
I never said that these speakers were similar to M-L or the N804. I listed all the speakers I auditioned in the "similar products" list because that is the template provided by AA. Later in my posts I clarified that I prefered the sound of the 604S2 to most other speakers (CDM9NT & all the M-L I auditioned in my price range). I still that & stick by my words. The N804 was clearly superior to the 604S2 - I admitted that too in one of later posts. Yes, budget contraints didn't allow me to buy the N804 but I feel that IN MY SYSTEM, I have a lot of good qualities of sound from the 604S2. The increase in openness, transparency, etc, etc that I would have gotten from the N804 but don't have from the 604S2 does not detract from the music IN MY SYSTEM.
I dislike the M-L systems I auditioned in my price range. They suck big time & to me they are inferior to the N804 & 604S2. They will always be so in my books! Yes, the M-L have much better mids & highs but as an overall sound delivery system they just don't cut it in my books. Your ranting up & down that they are superior OVERALL to the 604S2 sound will NOT make them superior in my books!
You like M-L speakers - so be it. You are allowed to like them & I'm allowed to dislike them. We agree to disagree. That's fine! I can handle that. You seem to indicate that every speaker costing more than the 604S2 must sound better than the 604S2. I disagree! You might disagree with me. Fine! Again, we to agree to disagree.
The point of the review is to showcase the sound of the speakers in my system the way I hear it. This is the underline thesis of ANY review - pro or private user. It is ALWAYS subjective & always has been.
I stick by my review. It + the later clarification posts are accurate. Just take a chill pill & stop harassing people!
But one thing. I do not have a problem with comprehension. "Similar products" as you put it, is very clear.
Hoxuanduc,Gosh you guys are literally splitting hairs length-wise!
When anyone writes a review on Audioasylum, the Audioasylum site provides a generic template. One of the headings in this generic template is "similar products". Now, what is one supposed to write in here? Only products that are in the same price, build quality, sound quality as the actual speakers I bought? Well, as it so happens, I auditioned all the speakers I listed at the time I was planning a speaker purchase & due to (mostly) budget reasons ended up buying the 604S2 speakers. I did not write the review in the context of these other speakers; the review was solely for the 604S2.
The statement about the speaker showing the effects of cabling & upstream components was made to shed some light on the accuracy & neutrality qualities of the speaker. Of course, within the context of its price range. What was implied was that, if driven with some upper mid-end or low hi-end electronics, the speaker could tell the listener whether or not changing CDPs, cables or pre was enhancing or degrading the overall sound quality.
You are mostly correct! There is another gentleman in Denver, CO, who has taken delivery of a pair. Could it be you, by any chance? The Excel Array has been heard in Brad V's system w/ his components & the 604S2 in my system w/ my components. So, you are right, the comparison is not totally fair. There was some similarity-Brad V's ss amps were the Odyssey Stratos amps, which have the same lineage as my Symphonic Line amps.
The Excel Array is based on the NFR ribbon while the 604S2 is based on a metal dome tweeter. Other drivers are also different. So, the 2 speaker sounds belong to 2 different categories. In my previous post where I mentioned this, I was implying that the metal dome tweeter sound was more appealing to me for the reasons stated therein.
Hope that this clarifies things.
Yes, I guess I'm bored at work. No music to listen to, so we nit pick at fellow audiophiles / music lovers.
You might want to address your last questions to the original poster, as I can't answer them :)He never compared the 604S2 to the other speakers. He merely mentioned them as "similar products used." They are similar in that they are all loudspeakers. Without any other text surrounding them, that is all you can infer from his statement. English 101 teaches that.
What would you call them, "other products used with drivers of cone or electrostat variety, similar in that they produce sound?" Maybe that wouldn't ruffle feathers.
But, as long as we're here...Bose, Cerwin Vega (sp?), KLH makes loudspeakers too. To call them similar to the B&Ws and other listed above because they are also loudspeakers in the context of this forum is quite a stretch, wouldn't you say?
It's a minor point any way. The main thing is he enjoyed the speakers. That's the ONLY thing that matters.
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