 
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
|
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
169.237.249.178
In Reply to: Disagree on #2 posted by Thornhill on April 10, 2007 at 10:22:10:
... what you're getting at. I don't own a score for this work, but it seems apparent that Litton's using a different version than Bernstein did, whether that's the new critical edition Schermerhorn used I couldn't tell you. And Litton's conducting is not expecially Bernstein-like (compared to say MTT), so I'm not sure in what sense he's trying to "outdo" Lenny.
Follow Ups:
Bernstein's performances are purposely unidiomatic -- he tries to make the music as exciting as possible. There's nothing really wrong with this, but many conductors, including Litton focus more on Bernstein's interpretation than the actual score. A specific example of this is the final dissonant chord. Bernstein holds it longer than it's supposed to be, and many people simply copy him instead of following the score. Another thing that irks me about the Litton performance is that the balance is way off in places -- in the last movement the strings gobble up the woodwinds.
actually reading the score, or as a musician? THAT is very cool. I must admit, I do not have the experience to analyze a performance that way. What caught me with the Litton was the "seriousness" of purpose -- the music doesn't sound like a pastiche or a caricature of itself -- combined with the pure heft of the orchestra, and the recording quality that supports it. The technical nuances of the score-vs-performance weren't a factor. I'll be honest with you, unless it was an outright abomination, I'm not sure I care. I'll drag poor Furtwangler-in-Beethoven up again as an example. HIS take on Beethoven is so far "over the edge" that one can either consider it to be profound or slander -- it may be both. Interestingly, it's entertaining either way...although the composer may (if he could express it!;-) have had an opinion about the interpretive liberties.Preferences aside, the Litton "just did it for me" (apparantly a lot of others too, FWIW). I never enjoyed Ives before, and this was a breakthrough. If the Litton recording turns more people towards the music, that is a good thing. I believe it has.
The liner notes that come with the Schermerhorn recording are fairly extensive and discuss the corrections and Ives' dissatisfaction Bernstein's performance (which are fairly well known). Some of the changes are clearly audible.Obviously I cannot argue with: "If the Litton recording turns more people towards the music, that is a good thing. I believe it has," but you should check out the Schermerhorn recording -- It's an even more rewarding experience.
It needs to be said that a lot of what's being presented here as black and white is really pretty gray, both in terms of what Ives wanted and what constitutes a good or accurate performance of his work.It's always difficult to say with certainty what any composer really wanted and with Ives, the problem is compounded by the fact that there are several different versions of almost every piece, often with none of them designated as the final or official version. In fact, often as not, Ives described the differences as "options." Just to take one example, you can perform the Concord sonata with piano only, with piano and flute, or piano and viola, and Ives often instructed pianists who came to him with questions about a given section to essentially "do whatever feels most natural to you." It's hard, in that context, to talk about strict adherence to the score as a primary virtue, I think.
To take the specific example you've brought up, the final chord in #2 can be interpreted a number of ways. It was actually one of those notorious "additions" Ives made to the score many years after he'd more or less finished the piece, so one can begin by wondering how central it is to symphony's conception. Beyond that, we should consider Ives statements that he wanted this to sound like the discordant bow scrape that country string bands used to do at the end of an evening of playing to signify that the dance was over. The question arises: how long would such a bow scrape be? I personally imagine the players would likely have held it for a beat and a half, but it's certainly not easy to say with certainty. For it to be played as short as the Schermerhorn seems to me unlikely, and to me, just isn't a satisfying end to the performance.
And then there's the matter of performance style. Whatever his strengths in sticking to letter of the score (and I'll have to take your word for it there), Schermerhorn doesn't seem to have much idea that the various nostalgic melodies quoted in the central movements have any emotional context, and he doesn't swing in the beginning of the final movement. I'm glad to have his recording, but I personally don't find it very convincing.
But to each his own. I'd take Bernstein (or Litton) over Schermerhorn, but I'm glad for the Naxos, too.
I did a little digging, he was a apparantly he was a first class second tier conductor...almost made it to the Bigs. He's got a clutch of Naxos recordings of American composers with great reviews. This is highly desireable territory for me, I'll have to grab 'em!:-)
.
I'll definitely check it. Thanks for the recommendation!
nt
... is certainly worth hearing, but I personally don't find it competitive with the best versions, whatever its strengths in terms of adhering to the letter of the score. Like virtually all the Naxos Ives recordings, I'm really grateful they're covering this repertoire, but tend to find the performances a bit dull. (Not an easy feat in Ives!)I'd definitely recommend hearing the Bernstein recordings if you haven't already, as well as MTT's, and older recordings by Ormandy and Stokowski. Some are available at budget price now--one good recommendation might be the Sony Essential Classica reissue of Ormandy's Ives #1 and "Three Places" with Stoki's "Robert Browning."
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2025, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
