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208.58.2.83
...Gustavo Dudamel, a 26-year-old Venezuelan.Before you start remarking, he conducted the BSO last summer in a spectacularly fine concert. If he can keep that up... well... L.A. will remain a symphony league winner.
clark
Follow Ups:
at the very least....Mehta, Guilini, Previn and Salonen....Of course in IMHO LA missed the boat when Ms. Chandler passed on Solti in the 60's...I guess one could say he had the last laugh in the end with Chicago...Personally, I would have liked to have seen someone with a repertoire take the baton in LA...a Mariss Jansons or David Zinman come to mind. Even a conductor who has had some critical success like Ivan Fischer might have been an interesting choice....I suppose the LA Phil. still needs to pay for Disney Hall instead of world-class conductor salaries...
x
Same with Giulini. I like Mehta. His Tchaikovsky cycle with LA Phil is extraordinary.
The pre-Chicago Solti was a great conductor. Virtually anything he did in the 40's and 50's is worth hearing. Try the Mahler 4 with Stahlman for starters. His 1958 "Rheingold" (with a dream cast including Flagstad's ineffable Fricka)is a desert island disc.This is someone who apprenticed with Toscanini, a young man with real fire in his belly. After the mid-sixties this went away, replaced by routine. Compare the 1958-64 Ring to the 1982 remake of bleeding chunks with the VPO. Shocking decline from both director and orchestra is readily apparent.
Loved the Bernard Herrmann recording on Sony Classical. The sacd is terrific!
I think it is suspicious that orchestrants, without any explicit prompt, vigorously deny any disconnect with Salonen. There is no smoke without fire.Salonen had great moments with this orchestra, which is documented on recordings. I can name Mahler 3 or Rite of Spring. Of all conductors that I have seen, he was most fun to watch. His body language speaks so much about music that it becomes a part of the performance. He could be a great ballet dancer if he would have chosen. I purposely buy back stage tickets when he conducts to fully enjoy his marvelous work.
But I often had a feeling that what Salonen emanates does not exactly translate into music. That the orchestra did not follow his guidance willingly and happily.
For a great conductor, it is not enough to be a great musician. On top of musicianship, one has to be a prophet, a general, a king. Because LA Phil is a group of high caliber personalities, they need someone of Napoleonic statute, otherwise they would not submit.
I've heard Dudamel this morning on KUSC playing Beethoven 5. With such a workhorse it is hard to say something new, but he said. He is a great musician, no doubt about it. His command over his orchestra (Simon Bolivar Youth) was amazing. Will he be able to convince the LA Phil of his prowess? Time will show, but one thing sure, it will be difficult time for Gustavo Dudamel.
x
Of course there's no way I could know what's really going on but I've seen the L.A. Phil perform probably 80 times in the last 5 years and from where I sit I can see the orchestra members' faces pretty well and if seeing how they react to him on stage is a real barometer they'd have to be very good actors if they have anything but great respect, admiration and affection for him. I say that not just because of how they respond to him but also comparing and contrasting that with how they respond to other conductors.Also, just because no prompt was mentioned in the article it doesn't mean there wasn't a prompt.
None of that means that there isn't more to it or that there aren't those in the orchestra who don't respond well to him and of course you have your own experience (I too have been at performances where I felt like what he can do and what the band can do doesn't quite come out in the music -- LVB # last season was a good example) but that's my feeeling/perception.
Don't piss on my shoe and tell me it's raining.
I wrote about it at the time (early last season)... and I was really questioning him then but since then virtually every performance I've seen when he's conducting has been extremely powerful for me.
Don't piss on my shoe and tell me it's raining.
That old thread had this:"Though he is largely forgotten and never got much press, I also think that Alfred Wallenstein also was a superb conductor."
We've been considering Salonen right here, right now. Once he leaves the conducting business, there's a chance he "just goes into oblivion" as a contemporary composer, barely to be seen or heard from again. Most living Classical composers, although they've gotta eat, would have to be a little nuts to think that they will ever be "icons" or whatever at the level of Sibelius. Such pretentions do not gel with reality.
Will Salonen be comfortable out of the limelight? Who knows? NY beckons in a few years, potentially.
. . . that waving the stick is about 10% of a MD's job. The rest gets old pretty fast, since most of it involves raising money.Not a bad composer, either, though not my cup of tea.
and their hiring decision is probably not sitting well with the universe of youngish conductors out there. A 26 year old is the best they could find...for Los Angeles no less?Here's a quote:
"Dudamel had never stood before a professional orchestra before taking part in a conducting competition sponsored by the Bamberg Symphony in Germany three years ago."
Good to give the kid an opportunity. I'm positive he's a better conductor than most just to have been considered. Still...it's an odd decision (IMO), based on inexperience alone. Even if his artistic and interpretive capabilities are very strong (they can't possibly be called great...he's got no track record), there's the fundraising and administration and public relations, along with the acceptance of the orchestra members themselves. So, it's an odd decision, but brave in an offbeat way.
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Don't piss on my shoe and tell me it's raining.
- http://www.calendarlive.com/printedition/calendar/cl-et-phil9apr09,0,2922939.story (Open in New Window)
SOMETHING must have contributed to this relatively radical decision. Surely, the new guy will make a LOT less $$$ than Salonen, and I didn't see any mention of the contract length. Honestly, I could never see such an appointment taking in place in NY, Chicago or Philly (for whatever that's worth). Salonen himself was quite young when he began. All in all, a daring and exciting decision. Still, the rainbow of conductors out there between the ages of 30 and 50 must be shaking their heads, wondering why they even bothered. 26 means NO TRACK RECORD, no matter how much we rationalize things. It also means "narrow range of repertoire under one's belt", again...necessarily.
It'll be interesting. One thing the L.A. Phil is known for is having a pretty wide repertoire and as you say the young guy just can't, yet. Salonen's staying in L.A. and will still conduct. I wonder if he'll have any influence.
Don't piss on my shoe and tell me it's raining.
the audience at most LA Phil concerts is a step away from the grave and maybe he will attract a younger audience or the orchestra won't have jobs at all. Just one perspective
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I don't want ESP to leave his postion or once he's done so to be the MD somewhere else (just so he's free to conduct here a bunch) but, in my limited view, it seems that a band (and city) that could REALLY use him is the NYP
Don't piss on my shoe and tell me it's raining.
And you're right about NY -- but does EPS need the grief?clark
and under Maazel, they've tight-as-can-be. Perhaps their leadership has lacked a little -- but just a little -- programming imagination. You've actually heard a lot of performances of the recent NYP you haven't like?
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but my father's been going regularly for 50 years and the feedback I get from him is that there's a lack of spark... that they could use the vitality and (to steal your word) imagination of a Salonen.It was only a few months ago that the NY Times wrote a piece about how the balance of power had shifted and the L.A. Phil had overtaken the NY Phil in many important parameters so I was going by that as well (they declared the L.A Phil the best in the country but that's too much of a subjective thing to declare IMO). Plus attendance is down in NY and way up in L.A.... of course WDCH is a factor there.
Don't piss on my shoe and tell me it's raining.
I wouldn't want to draw a straightline conclusion between orchestra/conductor quality and audience attendence. Baltimore is struggling also, and their leadership and execution (and programming) is very strong (at least through Temirkanov last year). LA has enormous population density to assist it -- don't laugh, it matters. I guess my point about NY is this: Get the hottest young conductor you can find...I'm not sure it will matter. The subscribers want their warhorses, and the young new audiences don't know what they want (or even if they want it). It may not matter who the chef is. LA is different: folks like young and new in LA (or so it seems). So, if the point is "they need radical change in NY just BECAUSE they need radical change" I agree. Spark notwithstanding, Maazel can be AWFULLY impressive on any given night with the NYP.
All good points. I wasn't trying to knock Maazel just saying (without really saying) they could use an infusion of vitality - or as you said a radical change - as an organization and that someone like Salonen could be just what the doctor ordered... of course it would have to be a Salonen who had the desire and energy to do it.
Don't piss on my shoe and tell me it's raining.
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plus, as you said, Dudamel could really be something special.Salonen said he wants to be a composer who conducts instead of a conducter who composes.
Don't piss on my shoe and tell me it's raining.
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