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HIPs - Incompetant Paray

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In Reply to: Wanda Landowska posted by herb's go karts on April 16, 2005 at 08:28:23:

All well meaning, on your part, Herb, but that's not what the HIPs are doing.
Read any of Gentle Thornhill's posts.
It's not the performances that I'm questioning here. After all, when you listen to Norrington, et al, they really just sound like really bad Paray or grossly incompatent imitators of wannabee imitators of Toscanini.
But, I'm examining the so-called research underlying their godlike pronouncents. These people are presenting their ideas as concrete, historic fact.
To do that, you need to follow scientific procedure; otherwise, you're just doing VOODOO.

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Re: HIPs - Incompetant Paray - herb's go karts 06:26:13 04/17/05 (2)
Ah, I see what you're up to now. Yes, that's very bothersome and I agree that if they're going to treat their interpretative visions as scholarly truth that invalidate others' interpretation, then real academic standards ought to apply (as well as a lot less fervour and being able to relax).
- HIP grown up - Bambi B 08:41:14 04/17/05 (1)
  hgc's,
  I agree with those who object to soem kind of absolute approcah to interpretationa na dinstrumentations, but I think the crucial aspec t of the conversation is that the HIP concept has matured considerably since the the purist days of the 60's. I speak three times a week with musician friends in Europe- most of whom are in the early music world and there is no rigid dogma. Sev believes he is persecuted for his objections to HIP, but it's that he is looking at small details he dislikes- perfectly valid to go from the specific to the general, but as a contrarian he can only see the details he dislikes and I think he has not been deliberatly missing some wonderful music (like the delightful chamber Mahler 4).
  Anyone spending time with professional musicians would see that HIP is an intellect structure that continues to evolve towards rather than away from openness. Scholarship has opened the flood gates and now there are more multiple options, more choices rather than less and the techniques of trying to understand orgianal sound continuinally provide new possiblities. There are arguments over details- why did Hubert cross his soundboard bracing under the clavichord bridge- and other arcana, but depsite Sev's characterization there is no enforcement patrol. I believe Sev is focussing his attention on a few individual cases of bad application of HIP from 30-40 years ago. The current generation, in WEurope at least, to be open and intellectually rigourous, but inevitably, as in the case of Norrington, the efforts can equal annoying music making. But listen to the Levin/Hogwoood Beethoven Piano concertoes- and these as performances stand with any interpretation, modern or HIP.
  HIP has grown up- but a person still has to look in the direction of really musical application of it's prnciples. As alway, great music making is exceeedingly rare.
  Cheers,
  Bambi B
  - yes, it seems overblown - herb's go karts 12:52:50 04/17/05 (0)
    Hi Bambi,
    While I'm getting what SSI's objection is I'd believe in your description of things as far as HIP openness goes before SSI's "battle of all battles" characterization. Speaking to musicians who play in HIP-style orchestras and ensembles I've never had a being preached to experience.
    Haven't had the opportunity to speak to any HIP-oriented conductors except for Andrew Parrott once, briefly, after a concert. He was very nice, not pushy or "my way or the highway" to anyone he spoke to. In fact, before the concert while he was going through what I guess is his standard one voice per part introductory speech, he didn't make any claims at all. It was more like "Well, we think this may be more like what things sounded like back then... it may sound odd to many of you, but I do hope you enjoy it."
    The huge battle and gnashing of teeth? Maybe in SSI's neighbourhood people are more violence prone! I've only encountered nice HIP people in my neighbourhood.
    Your AA post descriptions of the conversations you've had/people you've been speaking to are really interesting - makes me wonder about the different people I might have met if I'd become a music professor or instructor instead of an office worker.
    Anyway, as a small population sample, none of the friends I have who are also music fans (like 1,000-2,000 LP/CD classical collections) show any concern over HIP or non-HIP. They just get and listen to stuff they like.

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