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In Reply to: Re: DIY Corner Horn Recommendation posted by GM on February 18, 2005 at 10:37:43:
Hi again GM.I hear you on the any speaker pointed into the corner using corner loading. That's basically what the Pi design is. I think Wayne means 6 feet clearance per speaker. That would mean any room less than 12 feet wide doesn't qualify.
If you had a choice of using a corner horn or something else in a small room what would you choose? You haven't said a "best" option yet, you just say you CAN use corner horns.
If my name was Skipjack where would I find the designs you're talking about that are suited for tiny rooms? That would probably be helpful ;-).
Thanks again.
Grant.
Follow Ups:
Greets!Skipjack?! I thought this was Spinjack's thread!
Again, I don't know squat about WP's design, but think about it, if you can't put two corner horns closer than 12ft, then you can't put ANY speakers capable of LF/midbass output closer than 12ft, so does he recommend only mono or high midbass (~100Hz) cutoff systems for <12ft wide/deep rooms? I seriously doubt it! Even a car's small Vb dictates an Fb lower than this.
Maybe we should make it a rule-of-thumb for small room speaker system design to only use 6" (max) FR drivers in little sealed wall/ceiling corner PA cabs on opposing corners. The sweet spot will be small, with severely limited seating options, but imaging/soundstaging will mimic headphones, minus the 'fullness' due to the missing octaves of course, though SAF should be stellar if finished to blend in.
There is no single 'best' per se since it's room, desired performance, etc., dependent. What I originally posted is my preference and design details are obviously component dependent. For a 'top drawer' published design, and my fave corner horn concept for any typical size HI-FI room bigger than a walk-in closet, do a search for the Altec 820.
Anyway, Spinjack has set way too low a $$ limit for it so there wasn't any point in suggesting it other than the basic concept. Some other good options have already been posted, so there's nothing more for me to do design wise until a final driver/cab style is chosen.
GM
Specifics would be helpful. I posted another message with some followup questions. The Adire seems to be taking the lead, at least in terms of space requirements and room interactions. If I need a 12' wall, then the corner horns are out (I have a desk, a book case, a CD stand, and a couple sitting chairs). Also, I think a 12" driver is pushing it in terms of space requirements. I would think that the cabinet required for a 15" driver would be massive in terms of the room.I'd like the driver height to be no more than about 30" off the floor (the listening chairs sit rather low). I have no problems with cabinetry, so complex enclosures aren't an issue. I like the idea of the corner horn becuase I get the impression that I can get good sensitivity and depth with a smaller driver, but if the enclosure is huge, the point is moot.
What are some of the good corner designs? What is the best approach? What do I need to know to design a custom enclosure (if that is the direction I need to take)?
Greets!Kind of tough to be specific with non-specific driver/alignment info. See my response to the 'other GM' WRT this 12ft BS. That said, I hope all this furniture isn't going to be on the same wall between the speakers. If so, either speakers with high directivity or some sort of thick, well damped 'dropcloth' to span between them will be required for best performance.
WRT space requirements, a 15" will fit in the corners just fine without extending very far out into the room if the cab is triangular shaped and can be tall and the larger size makes for greater directivity, a 'must have' for good performance in a small room. IOW, make it look like the corners are rounded off in a sharp transition sort of way.
Unless the driver(s) dictate a cab that must go almost to the ceiling to get the desired alignment, the top of it can still be used as a place to put a decorative hanging plant. I did one rather large install where the 'shelf' was large enough that his 'better half' had us add a connecting shelf so she could make what turned out to be a beautiful 'hanging garden', which BTW makes for a great way to damp higher order reflections.
WRT pointing you to good corner designs in your price range, I don't know of any beyond you choosing whatever standard Pi, etc., kit suits your fancy and sticking it in the corners with big wads of insulation to damp the rear/side cavities this creates, but then I don't try to keep up with all the DIY designs that folks post. I've scanned many a post though where someone built some speaker plan they found in a book/on the net/whatever, slapped a driver other than the recommended one in it, stuck them in corners and praised them to all n' sundry that it's the best system they've been blessed to experience, so as always YMMV.
WRT to you designing a good system from scratch using small, low Xmax drivers will require a steep learning curve and considerable experimentation, both using simming programs and actual prototypes, so unless you plan to make speaker design /building a continuing hobby.........
GM
What price range would be considered 'more reasonable'? And, no, the furniture will not be along one wall. ;-)I haven't pinned down a specific layout, but right now I'm thinking the bookcase will be between the speakers or on a side wall, the desk on the opposite wall , the chairs will be 'free' in that they'll be moved depending upon the use but will most likely be along a side wall, one of which will be moved into the 'sweet spot' when appropriate.
I'll do a search on the Altec dricers you mentioned in another post.
Well, the Altec 820 I referenced would set you back at least a couple of grand for used components, plus any reconing, etc., required, so figure $3k min.. WRT to coax drivers, the better ones go for $300?/ea., up to > $1k/ea..Regardless of what you wind up with, be it a coax or multi-way, you want good directivity control down to between 300-500Hz depending on who you're asking, so the mids/HF needs to be <90deg. To keep the design simple, this means mid/HF horn(s).
To determine what's best for your room, make a plan view (floorplan) to scale to see what angle misses anything along the front and side walls to behind the listening plane, with the understanding that you want a diffuse soundfield behind this point. Bookcases, plants, hanging rugs, upholstered furniture, etc., are ideal for breaking up/damping the higher orders of harmonic reflections, just don't overdo it and make it too 'dead'.
If you build a system that doesn't need corner loading per se and the furniture will still fit, then you can place the speakers equidistant along the walls from a corner so that it acts as a quasi-mono horn, which can later be augmented with a sub if need be. This layout may allow a wider minimum directivity angle also, for a wider 'sweet spot'. Really, this layout works well with typical FR driver BLHs.
GM
The Pi corner horn design is a great design. I love mine. I just wouldn't think them the "best" option for the room you describe.A great approach is exactly what you're doing. Get feedback before you start, then choose what "sounds" best.
I would definitley check out Pispeakers. There are many high efficiency designs there, the support is great, price is a consideration, and you're likely to finish with something you're happy with. I've seen a lot of positive feedback during the time I've been involved in the forum.
Best wishes with whatever you choose.
Grant.
Thanks. I'm sure I'll need some help whan I make a final decision. If I go with a Pi, then they'll be able to help me out. But if I go with a modified HE10.1 or HE12.1, I'll need some assitance with port and port-psuedo-horn configuration.THanks for the help.
> But if I go with a modified HE10.1 or HE12.1, I'll need some assitance with port and port-psuedo-horn configuration.
====
Not a problem.GM
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