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In Reply to: Actually here are some Rock albums that have good fidelity: posted by Teresa on May 11, 2006 at 17:27:12:
Well I can speak to at least a half dozen of these, the rest either aren’t rock or are total trash anyway. I don’t think there is anything there from the last 20 years.Its been quite some time since I've listened to the first ELP and CS&N disks. So I'll withhold comments on those. While the Beatles white album and Maccos Ram are decent sounding, neither is as good as several of those Gabriel disks that started this discussion. In fact, the best sounding Beatles disks should include Abbey Road and Sgt Pepper, (which both won Grammies for best sound in their day). Pet sounds and Cream are also decent choices. McCartney’s Venus and Mars is a better choice than Ram (another Grammy winner for sound if I'm not mistaken).
This is pretty much what I'd expect from Teresa when asked to list best sounding rock disks. A mish-mash of total crap and B-listers, with a liberal amount of audiophile disks tossed in. Nowhere in the list is there anything truly stellar sounding (except possibly Pet Sounds).
Most telling is what is missing from the list. Off the top of my head, here are 15 truly well recorded rock disks you should have included, and I won’t even use any of the PG stuff:Pink Floyd: Dark Side of the Moon
Pink Floyd: Wish You Were Here
Supertramp: Crime of the Century
Eagles: Hell Freezes Over
Roger Waters: Amused to Death
Ricky Lee Jones (debut disk)
Joe Jackson: Body and Soul
Beatles: Abbey Road
Steely Dan: Aja
Steely Dan: Two Against Nature
Alan Parsons: Turn of a Friendly Card (and nearly anything else)
Fleetwood Mac: Rumors
Dire Straits: Brothers in Arms
Steve Winwood: Back in the High Life
As Stewart: Time PassagesI could easily list you 10 more with decent sonic grades, and many more that would be much less mainstream (try "Ain't Love Grand", by the Suitcase Pimps, for instance). I'll bet Metralla can list 15 more (and I'd love to see his list, I might learn about something new), and I'll bet he agrees with the majority of my choices, and me with his. Good sounding rock recording is a pretty universal thing.
So what is the reason none of these titles are on Teresa’s list? Maybe she hasn't ever heard them? Maybe its because she's biased against Rock music? Maybe she doesn’t take this type of music seriously? Maybe all of the above. It scares me to think of what would be on her worst sounding list!
Unlike the vast majority of classical music audiophiles out there, I can forgive a poor recording if the performance is good enough ("Who's Next" comes to mind, as does the Zeppelin catalog). I don’t limit myself to listening to Sheffield Labs crap and direct-to-disk nonsense, because for me the Sonics never overshadow the performance. Teresa can't say the same. To her the sonics come first, and ALL rock sonics are "very low fidelity" compared to massed strings from 180 gram vinyl playing through a vacuum tube front end.
I don't pretend to know much about classical music. Hence, I would never try to recommend to someone what sounds good and what doesn’t in the classical vein. I don't know, and I could really care less anyway. It’s all pretty boring to me. But I don’t tell others that something is "very low fidelity" when in truth I haven't got a clue. Teresa would do well to follow that philosophy.
Follow Ups:
but most of Teresa's suggestions were closer to my taste, musically. There are genuinely well recorded albums, and there are albums that just sound good. Then again there are recordings that sound sterilely clean, but come across as being over-produced. Which recordings fall into which category is a matter of taste, and taste in music is an emotional thing....as you've both demonstrated.
There's hundreds of CD recordings at local libraries to explore. I started out slowly and it is now the genre of music I have listened to most in the last year. Jazz will also be my favorite but classical music is another endless pit for which there are great rewards for those who stick with it!BTW, there are lots of great sounding multichannel classical SACDs.
Compare Side Two (the acoustic side) of the Beatles White Album to any Beatles album including Abbey Road and you will see why I chose the White Album as the best sounding.The sonics of Emerson, Lake and Palmer’s first LP, the one with Lucky Man and Just Take a Pebble are far superior to their more popular (in audiophile circles) Trilogy. The best sounding LP they ever did.
What you don't like Donovan, Arthur Brown, Canned Heat or any the others? Check out "On the road again" from Canned Heat their first and best sounding LP, I sounds very real and a great song to boot! And some of the other rock I listed has sound quality that is on par with better Jazz records.
Men Without Hats: Rhythm of Youth which is now 22 years old is the most modern rock music I like and sonically it is killer! This is an LP to show off your stereo system.
I noticed popular music going downhill since the mid 1980's and it has never recovered. Modern rock music is full of "distortion" on purpose; depressing lyrics and singers who sound like they just woke up from a nightmare. I'm sorry I just can't get into any Rock/Pop music written since the mid 1980's.
From your list:
Pink Floyd: Dark Side of the Moon (Not bad but way over-rated, On the Run and Time are good, and there are some neat sound effects but the music just doesn't sound realistic)
Pink Floyd: Wish You Were Here (I didn't like this LP at all for sound or music)
Supertramp: Crime of the Century (sound isn't bad on the MFSL LP but the I didn't care for the music, sold it on eBay)
Eagles: Hell Freezes Over (never owned it as I hated their other album Hotel California)
Roger Waters: Amused to Death (would like to hear this one, I do have the Video of In The Flesh Live on DVD 16 Bit 48kHz in 2 channel stereo)
Ricky Lee Jones (debut disk)(didn't like her voice)
Joe Jackson: Body and Soul (Don't like him either)
Beatles: Abbey Road (Great LP, white album better although Here Comes the Sun written by George Harrison is great)
Steely Dan: Aja (Had the MFSL of this one - I hated it sold it on eBay)
Steely Dan: Two Against Nature (Had the DVD-Audio of this because it was raved about, didn't like it either)
Alan Parsons: Turn of a Friendly Card (and nearly anything else) (This one I do like but sonically doesn't compare with the 15 I listed, all the Alan Parsons Project albums are good)
Fleetwood Mac: Rumors (Some really good songs, not best in sound though)
Dire Straits: Brothers in Arms (Had the 180 Gram LP and the SACD, very overrated and sound is good but not great)
Steve Winwood: Back in the High Life (Didn't like although I do like most of the Traffic LPs)
As Stewart: Time Passages (Hated the MFSL LP of this one at lot!)I don't pretend to know anything about Rock/Pop music except what I like and what sounds good on my system. Remember you asked me "What Rock I thought sounded good" since on my stereo Peter Gabriel sounds so bad. I was honest and I do have a clue Peter Gabriel doesn't sound good on my system, the ones listed I own and they do.
Happy listening and don't forget to boogie,
Teresa
I can see you are way out of your element with Rock sonics as well.....But enough. I already knew that. I dont want to perpetuate this.
Consider not making reccomendations on rock recordings, whether they be about the sonics or performance. Every time you do you come out looking like a bigger idiot.
I explained my answer and you attacked again.You keep forgetting you are the one who asked my what I thought were good sounding rock recordings.
All of your attacking will not make Peter Gabriel’s recordings sound any less cold or give them any type of sonic realism they do not possess. You cannot bully someone into believing something sounds good when it clearly does not.
You badly need an attitude adjustment.
You do not have to agree with what I think sounds good but you do not have to attack either. Understand?
Teresa
joyzmantoyz,I congratulate you on an excellent post. I hope Teresa reads it. And your choices of good sounding albums is stellar, though "Two Against Nature" doesn't quite make it, in my book (though I like the album). I hope to get some time to think of some of my favs. "The Boatman's Call" by Nick Cave comes immediately to mind.
I can forgive a poor recording if the performance is good enough
Agree in spades!!
I'm a real novice at classical, but have a ton of SACDs. So I listen to what Teresa says in that area (and have all the Vanguards, including the two that she had at the top of her SACD list).
As far as rock goes, Teresa is out of her element.
Regards,
Geoff
I told him and he attacked. I was perfectly honest and I own all the LPs I said sounded best to me.I too can forgive a poor recording if the performance is good enough
But the question was not about performances, it was about sound quality only.
And Peter Gabriel does not sound good on my system either on LP, CD or SACD.
Glad you are enjoying the Vanguard SACDs. Now that is something I can get excited about!
Happy listening,
Teresa
I would have taken Fagen's Nightfly over TAN, but that is a good post any way you split it.peace
You are right, The Nightfly does have killer sound.My experience with Two Against Nature (and with Everything Must Go for that matter) is strictly with the DVD-Audio multi-channel version. Perhaps the standard CD is not as good. I've never heard it.
With respect to Steely Dan, Gaucho also has decent sonics and could have been included. In fact, there are probably dozens of other disks that could have been included. Those were the first 15 I thought of that I felt were most recognisable.
Performance wise, try Walter Beckers solo album "11 tracks of Whack"
Well hell, if you enjoyed the DVD-A of those two then you really need to pickup Nightfly on DVD-A!! But, the cd is very well done. ( A shame Aja hasn't made hi-rez format but thats been talked about.) Would have a hard time getting past Becker's vocals espicially after hearing him do a couple of tracks live some time back. Stayed away from Whack because of that but may now give it a try.Peace
Well hell, if you enjoyed the DVD-A of those two then you really need to pickup Nightfly on DVD-A!! But, the cd is very well done. ( A shame Aja hasn't made hi-rez format but thats been talked about.) Would have a hard time getting past Becker's vocals espicially after hearing him do a couple of tracks live some time back. Stayed away from Whack because of that but may now give it a try.Peace
My impression of the DVD-A is that there is very little difference between it and the standard redbook version (but the Redbook is truly stellar to begin with). That is, until you play the multi channel tracks... then it sets itself apart as something special.I haven't heard "Morf the Cat" yet. But I will get it soon. My music budget is dealing with getting the five Moody Blues SACD releases. Two down, three to go.
And you are not alone wishing for the remainder of the Dan catalog coming on Hirez. Aja and Countdown would be amazing I'm sure.
I can understand being afraid of Beckers vocals. But check out the disk, or try to listen on line at Amazon. It'll surprise you. Fagin is on it as well. Check out "Surf and/or Die" and "Down on the Bottom"
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