|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
72.76.198.165
Hello Everyone,
A while back I was researching which edition of "Dark Side of the Moon" to purchase. Everyone indicated that the Japanese First Pressing was considered to be the best. I also found several stores on-line, in Japan, that specialize in Japanese first pressing CDs and usually charge $100 to 150 for them.My question is, what makes these CD so special? Is it the CD manufacturing itself or is it the mastering (that is, the binary files themselves) itself that makes the difference? I would have thought that a music label would sell the same master in all markets? Afer all, why pay more money to master a CD multiple times? In the case of DSOTM it appears that there are 5 to 7 mastered versions out there (even amongst the Japanese 1st pressing there appears to be two version, matrix codes A2 and A0). Some say that those first pressings did not use any "enhancements" like companding filters or other gimmicky DSP effects so that why they sound so natural. Anyone care to comment on this?
If anything, it makes sense that a recent remaster ought to sound better since A/D converter technology supposedly has come a long way since 1985. Then again, I guess a possible issue is that the original master tapes have also aged 20 years since CDs first came out so this deteriation in tape quality might negate any improvement in A/D converters if you remaster today.
Follow Ups:
compare the columbia, epic, warner early pay pressings to the later us pressed CDs, and you'll find that generally the japs pressings are "diluted".the original mastertapes stayed back in the us while only dupe copies were sent to the plants in japan.
when you listen to columbia and epic cds in particluar, you'll also notice a slow down in "tempo". listen to same recordings on LPs, and you'll notice the same slow down in "tempo" too. listen to SACDs and you'll notice the bloody same issue too. except that jap SACDs have additional "HoT" flavour due to chemical make-up of the discs.
c
JAP!!?
I can’t offer you a technical reason why Japanese first pressings sound different, but I have a number of them, and I wouldn’t say they uniformly sound better than every other pressing. Some sound great, while others are quite disappointing—at least to my ears.I still have a Japanese first pressing of DSOTM that I bought used in the late ‘80s. It sounds very nice—smooth and relaxed, though mastered fairly low—but I definitely prefer the SACD and MoFi (in that order). Both sound more resolved and more dynamic, particularly the SACD.
But, really, it’s all about preference. I know a bunch of people who worship at the altar of the first pressing, and think it’s easily the best version of that title. I happen to disagree, but I can appreciate its charms. It’s one of the most “analog”-sounding CD pressings of DSOTM (the MoFi is another one), and if you like that type of sound, it’s definitely a keeper. Of course, it’s also extremely valuable, which is a not-inconsiderable attraction.
Any chance you could name some titles in both categories?
Regards,
Geoff
...I have an early-issue Japanese DSOTM. And guess what? It sounds great! Much better than the MFSL 25th Anniversary edition.Although vinyl is better still...
Clark,Is the "early-issue Japanese DSOTM" on the Harvest label with a 'black face', and a serial number of CDP 7 46001 2 and a matrix number of CP35-3017 nnAm? (the last 4 characters vary widely - for example, I have 22A5)
Or is it a 'black triangle' EMI Harvest CP35-3017?
If so, you indeed have the best sounding DSOTM Redbook (apparently with a nod to the black triangle, which I've not heard).
The Mobile Fidelity CD release of "Dark Side of the Moon" UDCD 517 UDI (Japan) or UDCD 517 UDII (USA) is not related to the 25th anniversary of the release of the album (March 1973). That was celebrated by the release of the "Shine On" box.
There was also a 20th anniversary release on EMI in a cardboard box (Japanese number TOCP-7776).
Of course, the 30th anniversary was marked by the release of the SACD and the very fine LP.
The following link shows all the variations.
Regards,
Geoff
Still, however, I must wonder whether it's its blackness that makes the difference...Also, it's the 20th Anniversary I have, not the 25th; can't win 'em all.
...I have a fair collection of LPs -- six or seven -- of which the worst are the Capitol and MFSL (not the thick one), and the best are the original UK (of indeterminate vintage) and the Jap regular issue; the Jap "Pro Series" (half-speed mastered) falls inbetween.
http://www.pirateuropa.com/details.php?id=2524Here is the file description:
ABOUT THE DARK SIDE OF THE MOON "HOLY GRAIL"The most sought-after pressing of Dark Side of the Moon is actually not either of the MFSL Gold Discs, but a small run of discs made in Japan in 1984 -- EMI catalog number CP35-3017. From what I understand, this was a straight, flat transfer from the master analog tapes. This was in the days before CD audio was "put on steroids" with EQ tweaking and innumerable other processes that altered the sound.
But even within CP35-3017 there are discrepancies: there are different matrix pressings. The most generally recognized as the best is the "__A2" pressing (with no "TO" in the matrix code), which is also available on this site. It's rather quiet but very smooth. The matrix code I'm offering here is "1A1 TO", which is less sought-after. Its sound is much louder and a little more harsh.
Nevertheless, the "__A2" pressings have been called "underwhelming" and some people don't prefer them at all.
I happen to prefer that pressing, but I still think that the "1A1 TO" ought to be made available so everyone can make up their minds for themselves. It's an audiophile rule: you can't know you have the best pressing until you've heard and scrutinized all the others.
So, in good audiophile spirits, I share my copy of the 1A1 TO pressing, whether it's better or worse than what you have.
Mine is a 22A5.Are you aware that absolute polarity makes a huge difference, and if one is "wrong" then it will sound "underwhelming".
As you probably know, it took 18 months or so after the release of the CD before a pressing plant came on line in the USA. All CDs prior to that were made in either West Germany or Japan. In most cases, the engineers supervised the transfers with no interference from record company executives.They wanted to stay well away from the 0dB level (distortion) so the overall levels were very low and the sound was not futzed with. The early CDs from plants in the US and Australia also followed this recipe.
In the '90s, the introduction of the shuffle play CD machine, and the sampler CDs sent to radio stations for them to choose songs to play on the air, led to what is called the "loudness wars". You can see this in Wikipedia.
As you know, in listening comparisons, the louder sounds better. So record company executives wanted to make their tracks louder than their competitors, attracting the ear of the radio stations. A punchy louder track cut through and seemed more likely to grab the listeners. Cheap systems seem to like these louder CDs - but good systems definitely don't.
As time went by, it was not enough to make the CD transfer at a higher level - ensuring the peak was still under 0dB. By compressing the sound, the overall level could be increased, squashed up into the most significant bits, ruining the dynamic range that the CD medium has. Executives instructed the engineers to simply make it louder, even clipping off the tops of the waveforms and letting distortion occur.
So the modern master suffers from this direction, being imposed from above. Yes, the analog to digital converters are better than 20 years ago; and yes, they get access to the original master tapes for remastering, something that did not always happen with the originals. But unless the engineers are skilled and have a free hand, the remaster will not be an improvement, and in many cases, it will be far worse. If we add in the stupid ideas like removing analogue tape hiss, the result is crap.
There have been some mastering engineers who have been able to take their own path - Hoffman, Diament etc. and the remasters from DCC and MFSL are mostly excellent (some from Mobile Fidelity are not as good as they could be due to equalization choices).
I collect a number of these early CDs. The "targets", black triangles, early Japanese first pressings. I have a number of duplicates and have not found any remasters that I significantly prefer to the original CD.
Your experience may be different.
There are other reasons to collect the early CDs, especially the ones made in Japan. They were a premium product over there, with extensive artwork, heavy plastic cases, and good quality control. Now they are rare and expensive, and the seller you indicate (1st press heaven) knows that they can command higher prices.
Regards,
Geoff
So are you saying that when CDs became available in the USA the record companies actually went through the trouble to re-master all, if not most, of them to suit the new "louder is better" tastes?
I'm saying that the early Japanese and West German CDs were available in the USA - they just were not made here.When CDs were first made in the US, they were not a victim of the "loudness wars" - I'm referring to the '80s, before the concept. Early US-made CDs are also very good.
Remastering to make a premium product was started by MFSL, and releases like the CBS MasterSound series. These are all quite good, certainly with respect to reasonable levels.
I am saying that once the trend of really "hot" mastering for popular releases took hold - from the mid-90s onward - remastering by the majors of albums that had previously been released on CD in the early days seem to suffer from the same affliction. They were afraid to make a remaster that wasn't also jacked up nice and loud like CDs of new material that they were making.
Regards,
Geoff
Thanks for the write-up,Sounds like a scam to me. So now it is not enough to just give the record companies your hard earned money just once. Now you got to buy a defective CD just to re-purchase it later to get a "fixed" version.
I don't know the answer to your question however would you mind posting the links to the sites that sell the CDs. Thanks.
Seems a perfectly reasonable enquiry for this forum.
Big J.
http://stores.ebay.com/1ST-PRESS-HEAVEN
NT
My understanding is as follows. Perhaps someone closer to the actual business can comment.1- After the mastering of a project, "parts" are made. These parts are then shipped to the plants that actually make the CDs. There are masters and mothers. I believe the mothers are discs in which the pits stick OUT, as these are used to stamp out the copies you buy.
2- The Mothers eventually wear out. Thus, a later pressing of the same CD using the same mother might not be as good.
Somewhere I saw microphotos of CD pits and you could see immediately that it's not as cut and dried as you might expect.
And maybe this is why:
There are 9 different lengths of "pits" and "lands."
You can see at least several of those lengths here.
Here's another resource worthy of your time.
Wouldn't it be interesting to compare the audio on the same (Title) CD from various pressing plants around the world? Some audio magazine, website or club should take this on.
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: