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In Reply to: Re: I am a fan of SACD but... posted by tunenut on August 14, 2006 at 18:10:21:
I use to have an SCD-1 too. I agree that on a direct comparison of that machine playing redbook and SACD the SACDs sound better, but not dramatically better in most instances. The difference is best heard on good classical recordings where the sound of the hall and the natural decay of reverberant energy is critical. A lot of rock music is so poorly recorded that SACD's superiority cannot really be appreciated.I replaced the SCD-1 with a redbook Naim CDS3. I MUCH prefer the sound of the Naim over the SCD-1, even when comparing the SACD layer to the redbook layer played on the Naim. I know this is not an apples-to-apples comparison, given that the SCD-1 is much less costly and is an early version of an SACD player. But, this does illustrate that the putative inherent superiority of SACD is not so great that it swamps other differences in quality of players. I have heard other comparisons where redbook players come out ahead: EML vs Audionote, Cary 306 vs. Naim CDX2, and modified SCD-1 vs. Audionote.
I too am waiting for a machine to arrive on the scene that is terrific with both SACD and redbook (I did not like the dcs stack I heard and the Esoteric X-01 I heard). In the mean time, I have purchased at least 50 classical dual layer discs even though I now have only a redbook player. In almost all instances, these are terrific sounding discs (to me, this shows that careful recording and mastering is more important than the format).
Follow Ups:
Larry,Thats not really a fair comparison. The Naim CDS3 (terrific player - I've heard it) has better power supplies, caps, so on and so on. It is 'pimped' as my 21 year old son might say (in fun of course) compared to the first generation SCD-1, which as you rightly point out is bested by the latest generation SACD players. But if you compare the Naim - as wonderful as it is - playing a redbook CD along side the DCS Delius/Verdi La Scala playing the same music in SACD (as long as it is from a well-recorded original source or native digital recording then the difference will become more significant. Plus the dCs can do multi-channel.
But I have heard the full DCS set up. I did like its SACD performance, but there was something missing for me in the redbook performance. I cannot say exactly what, but the music was not quite engaging and seemed a touch polite. This could easily be a matter of system integration, but it did not blow me away.No question that the SCD-1 and CDS3 comparison was not fair. I was merely pointing out that those who claim that SACD is so vastly superior that it blows away any implementation of redbook is wrong.
Right now, I have a friend's Naim 555 player in my system. It is a very subtle improvement over the CDS3 (boy, do you have to pay BIG bucks for marginal improvements). There is also no doubt in my mind that a good transport coupled to an Audionote DAC-5 signature would easily trump the CDS3. But, it took quite a while for redbook to reach this level of refinement and I am sure SACD has plenty of room for refinement too.
"I replaced the SCD-1 with a redbook Naim CDS3. I MUCH prefer the sound of the Naim over the SCD-1, even when comparing the SACD layer to the redbook layer played on the Naim. I know this is not an apples-to-apples comparison, given that the SCD-1 is much less costly and is an early version of an SACD player. But, this does illustrate that the putative inherent superiority of SACD is not so great that it swamps other differences in quality of players. I have heard other comparisons where redbook players come out ahead: EML vs Audionote, Cary 306 vs. Naim CDX2, and modified SCD-1 vs. Audionote."I think with SACD vs. redbook, this apples to apples thing can be overrated as a concern. I'm pretty sure I heard what SACD has to offer on the $5000 Audience modified Sony 999 and musically it came in a clear second to several different AN transport/dac combos. I would expect the same with 47 Labs gear. And you are the second guy to say that they preferred an AN dac to the EML. With the Sony and the Naim, I think you may have been listening to the differences in the marques as much as the differences in the technology. But then, SACD does have some of the characteristic Sony sound, which I have always found a bit unnaturally smooth, tending toward grey. A very nice grey, but grey nevertheless.
"A lot of rock music is so poorly recorded that SACD's superiority cannot really be appreciated"Except for a few scattered instances, I like rock music on SACD much more than CD. Dylan, Stones, Can- these are absolutely superb reissue sets. I was hoping for a golden age of such reissues, but it looks like that's about all we're getting.
For whatever reason, I still like vinyl LP- and in many cases, the rock music SACDs I have are reminiscent to my ears of good old LP sound and much more so than even my favorite CDs. Big Star, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Talk Talk, Richard Thompson - excellent SACD reissues. Unfortunately, rock and related music has always been extremely poorly represented on SACD.
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