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In Reply to: Re: Oyaide AC connectors and LAT AC-2MkII posted by Duster on July 13, 2006 at 11:00:12:
I was hoping you would respond to this posting, Duster: I wanted to ‘pick your brains’.The devil is in the detail. I wanted to convey not that the sound using the LAT, Furutech FI-E11(Cu) and Otto Heil IEC was markedly thin and congested, but that small deficiencies in these domains of reproduction needed to be addressed; but how best to do so by changing connectors while retaining the particular contribution of the cable? I could live with the sound of the cable-connector combination with the DAC2.1x Balanced but felt strongly that I could ease reproduction, by re-combining cable and connectors, onto a more ‘exalted’ plane. Your confidence in recommendation, and my own intimations, settle how I am now to proceed.
I have it on good authority, namely, from Oyaide themselves, that a Schuko socket is being developed for marketing at the end of the year. Your recommendation for AC sockets is noted.
Follow Ups:
Hi Seán,See link below for a report that might be of interest to you. The Oyaide re-terminations were compared with a copper Furutech FI-11M(Cu) AC plug and silver Furutech FI-11(Ag) IEC connector combo that likely offers somewhat similar performance as your copper Furutech FI-E11(Cu) AC plug and silver Otto Heil IEC connector combo. The test cable is a silver plated copper conductor XLO Reference 2 Type 10A power cord:
Simply to say that I was aware of your report and, indeed, this was partly why I hoped you would respond to my post.I might have proceeded on the basis of the earlier report, but, in so far as words do convey ‘the things’ we would like them to convey, to have you respond specifically to my invitation, and then offer further clarification, has proved most valuable to me.
I would like to take this opportunity to remark — not in response specifically to anything you have written — that, though my experience with Oyaide P-037e and C-037 with the LAT connecting the DAC2.1x Balanced to the mains did not yield the inflection I sought, I would not characterize these rhodium-plated connectors from Oyaide as ‘forward’, at least in that context of use. I would not say that the sound became aggressive or intrusive. What was evident to me was the character of spatial presentation, a certain spatial compression as one ‘looks into’ the recording; evident, also, was a ‘coolness’, the timbre say of a violin not quite how I hear it in the auditorium; a certain vividity, liveliness, oomph, whatever, was patent. Now, given what I have read elsewhere apropos application of the Oyaide rhodium connectors, one might easily infer use with a balanced, transformer coupled tube output is just the ticket. This did not prove so, as I have indicated. I don’t know if your experience with the gamut of Oyaide connectors and sockets would support my expressed sentiment; I write this to convey to you how I have perceived, albeit on a limited acquaintance, the character of one type of Oyaide AC connector, so that you might infer the manner of my perception. These Oyaide connectors are presently connected to a Eupen cable supplying the CDP currently serving as my DAC’s transport; when this device was used as a CDP I rejected the use of the Oyaide connectors; now, acting as transport only, I find merit in using the Oyaide connectors. I don’t believe I am working under delusions. What is patent to me is that there is much art in this matter.
I think you are clear minded and have very good insight into the issue. Myself and others also find the rhodium Oyaide AC gear to sound forward as compared to the other models (especially the palladium models) which can be useful for certain applications. An interesting comparison was made by Luminator (aka Lummy) regarding this matter [ http://db.AudioAsylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=cables&n=120697 ]. About your concern; I don't find the gold Oyaide gear to sound forward, rather I find it to have excellent in-the-room projection which is a quite different and very good thing to many folks. Your plan to try a gold C-079 IEC connector first is a smart one, IMO. If you find that the C-079 does very well for your wants/needs, adding the gold P-079e AC plug will take things much more in that new direction. However, you may find that the Furutech FI-E11(Cu) to provide great synergy with the cord/connector mix. Let the forum know how the project goes :-) Cheers
Wow, Oyaide should put you on their payroll, you really love them! :)
Do you think the fact that the XLO Ref. 2 type 10A is lacking in the midrange might have affected the outcome of your listening test?
I'd use a cryo'd PS Audio Punch before I'd go with the XLO cord. It's lack of full-scale midrange dynamics, and its' 'whitened' coloration overall, make it a pretty poor subject for a comparison of AC connectors, don't you think?
Forgive my intervention here but the remarks about XLO Ref 2 Type 10A power cord surprise me and are quite contrary to my recent experience. I have VH Audio Flavor-4s in both my tube preamp and solid state power amp and tried both the Flavor-1 and Flavor-4 in my CD player. Though these are excellent power cords, there was this slight brightness in the system, lack of ambience and not much air among instruments and singers. I changed the power cord of the CDP to the XLO recently and found a remarkable improvement in all these aspects as well as noticeable boost in midrange dynamics but still something overall missing. Then I changed the Wattgate IEC and Hubbell hospital grade AC plug of the XLO to Furutech FI-11 Ag IEC and FI-11 Cu plug respectively and believe me, everything has fallen into into the right slot. Even I found it difficult to believe first but midrange dynamics is great, all brightness rounded off and lot of air and space among instruments and singers, especially front-to-back. The best test, yes, I have some CDs of old 1960s records, mono, which now sound so listenable without brightness, hiss, noise etc whereas they were unbearable earlier. Need more proof in favor of the XLO Ref 2 type 10A with Furutechs for digital gear??? Check also with me.
Murali, let's be clear here, I said the XLO Ref 2 10A stinks, because I feel it to be an inferior PC. If you've modified it by putting the excellent Furutech connectors on it, then it's not a Ref 2 10A anymore, it's a modded product.
And I still think you'd get higher performance, with those same connectors, on another PC.
JMO.
HowdyI deleted some of your messages which went too far and would delete more except I feel that some of the responses which have good info would then be out of context.
As I said before, back off a little on the personal stuff. Also, in general, if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all.
If you've been around for a little you very well know that there are many paths to a great system.
-Ted
Hello Eric,
Initially it was with great technical interest I started reading all your debates with Duster on this subject but now things look turning a bit nasty here. I shared my experience on the XLO and please note the following: (1)The earlier power cords I mentioned also have Furutech plugs but still looked a little on the brighter side, a thinness in midrange, not enough dynamics (especially with VTL preamp well known for its dynamic range) and a bit congested soundstage. (2)With the original XLO (Wattgate/Hubbell) itself, there was noticeable improvement in all the above aspects especially midrange and dynamics. (3)With Furutechs on, the rough edges were smoothened out and music becomes free-flowing and I can't aspire for more.
Again, please note that the system is an Arcam/VTL/Ayre/Vandy/Rel with AQ cables and supposed to give a very good performance and with the XLO on, I believe I am almost there. (I had a very similar debate going on with the stock high-level speaker cable given by Rel and when I changed it to an XLO special made for Rel subs, believe me the improvement was quite dramatic. Of course, this has nothing to do with in this discussion but just to highlight changes impacting individual systems rather than making a general statement praising or degrading equipment.)
Trust we all become wiser and mellowed at the end of this debate and try to see things in the right perspective rather than force our individual opinions.
Good luck and thank you.
Why must you show such disrespect? It's bad form in Cable Asylum to dis other folk's cable choices in the context of this thread. Folk's don't care if you think the XLO or any other cable is a dog worthy of being beaten in front of it's owner.There is always "a better cable to be had elsewhere" with various criteria decision making including price point being a prime factor. If folks who own higher performance cables slammed other folk's "lesser performance cables" as a matter of course, this forum would indeed be a very ugly place to visit.
What you seem to be trying to accomplish is very uncool, IMHO. I hope you decide to give this matter a rest, sooner than later, since all you accomplished with your previous post is offend yet another inmate.
Thanks for tossing in your 2 cents, murali. I'm glad you also don't think the XLO Reference 2 Type 10A power cord "stinks". I find it to be an excellent power cord for digital applications. While not SOTA, it's a goody and a true classic, IMHO. To my ear, it certainly offers an excellent soundstage presentation and imaging, as well as a number of other high performance listening cues. I find it's tonal balance and top-to-bottom dynamics to be very proper, indeed. I also find it to have a nice balance of the "musical" vs. the "analytical". Re-termination of the cable with Audio Grade AC connectors takes it to a much higher level, as you also have found to be true in your experience. Cheers
Your sonic signature description seems to be that of the silver plated Aural Thrills power cord you don't like (perhaps a mil-spec wire design), since it does not describe the XLO Reference 2 Type 10A power cord's sonic signature at all, IME. In any case, I won’t waste my time defending the XLO Reference 2 Type 10A's performance, particularly if you consider a PS Audio Power Punch power cord to be a superior product (if it’s sonic signature is anything like it’s predecessor, the PS Audio Micro Lab power cord).
Sorry, but I was describing the XLO cord the way I heard it when I auditioned it. I don't describe the sonics of a device unless I've actually heard it, and if I'm speculating, I say so. There's a reason that the XLO cord can be had so cheaply in the used market, it stinks. (IME) And I said that a cryo'd PS Audio Punch was superior to the XLO Ref 2 type 10A, because I've heard a cryo'd Punch, and it's an excellent PC for the money (50-$75). But only if cryo'd. Otherwise, it has a serious midrange coloration.
For a newly registered AA Inmate (barely 2 days, 14 posts so far) you are off to a bad start in my book. Your snide remark about my enthusiasm for Oyaide and your inference that my cable evaluation capacity is somehow lacking is well noted. I suggest you take a more amiable approach and avoid going out of your way to show disrespect towards other folk's credibility and their cable choices as something to enjoy in the forums. just my 2 cents
I'd say the only things you lack are a sense of humor and reading comprehension.
Did you not see the smilie next to my comment about you working for Oyaide? That's the universal internet forum sign for "I'm kidding you". Lighten up.
And where did I infer that your cable evaluation capacity is lacking? Could you give me a quote?Also, just for accuracy, it was you who called into question my credibility when you implied I'd never actually listened to the XLO power cord. And then you went on to denigrate the cryo'd PS Audio Punch, which you've never listened to. Perhaps you should evaluate the way you communicate before offering advice to others, newbie or otherwise.
Pot, meet Kettle.
Hi Eric,Quotes per request:
"There's a reason that the XLO cord can be had so cheaply in the used market, it stinks."
Many of those cheaply priced XLO Reference 2 Type 10A power cords found in Audiogon and eBay are DIY builds using XLO's discontinued model 10A bulk cable product available for DIY termination. The bargain price is not because the cable “stinks” in your opinion. I would like to think that I don't advocate nor use cables that fit that descriptor.
"Do you think the fact that the XLO Ref. 2 type 10A is lacking in the midrange might have affected the outcome of your listening test?? ...It's lack of full-scale midrange dynamics, and its' 'whitened' coloration overall, make it a pretty poor subject for a comparison of AC connectors, don't you think?"
A "pretty poor subject" for evaluation purposes? I think not. If the cable sucks as much as you say it does, by implication this would mean I'm a pretty poor judge of cables and my credibility as a cable evaluator would be greatly diminished in AA. Perhaps I should be ashamed of myself for misleading folks? If you are insensitive to this issue, I have nothing else to say other than allow a man his dignity, please.
Furthermore, I don’t agree with the accusations you state regarding my posting personally offensive replies. I've been rather polite towards you, all things considered, IMHO.
Regards, Duster
HowdyLet's stick to the point and leave personalities out of it. Talk about the posts not the posters.
-Ted
A Cables Asylum Moderator
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