Matching AMPs with Speakers

RE: Matching AMPs with Speakers, posted on August 19, 2024 at 17:54:21
vortexm27 Audiophile Posts: 18 Location: Washington,DC Joined: November 19, 2007	What is the question?

RE: Matching AMPs with Speakers, posted on August 19, 2024 at 19:22:50
AbeCollins Audiophile Posts: 49084 Location: Maidenhead Grid Square DM79 Joined: June 22, 2001 Contributor Since: February 2, 2002	I was wondering the same thing. I do like the Cary V12 in his setup. I had a pair of AES/Cary SixPac monoblocks with 6 EL34 tubes per amp. They were wonderful and a true bargain. I replaced a pricey CJ amp with the less expensive SixPacs they were that good.

We only know the answer . . ., posted on August 20, 2024 at 13:29:40
tlea Audiophile Posts: 835 Location: New Orleans Joined: January 20, 2002 Contributor Since: October 29, 2006	. . . 42 . . . in theory, practice and theory are the same; in practice, they are different . . .

RE: We only know the answer . . ., posted on August 20, 2024 at 17:47:42
Leo loves music Audiophile Posts: 834 Location: NJ/NY Joined: October 14, 2021	CJ 17LS2 -> Cary V12 + Plinius SA102 -> B&W 801 + other tweaks. Very good result. Happy.

Bi-amped? , posted on August 21, 2024 at 09:24:17
E-Stat Audiophile Posts: 40851 Joined: May 12, 2000 Contributor Since: April 5, 2002	Those two amps have different visions.

RE: Bi-amped? , posted on August 21, 2024 at 17:03:43
Leo loves music Audiophile Posts: 834 Location: NJ/NY Joined: October 14, 2021	Yes. I have B&W 801 S2 speakers. There are quite a few folks who had bad luck with these speakers. Finding a matching AMP can be difficult and expensive. For example: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/warm-sounding-preamp-suggestions

Ok, but, posted on August 21, 2024 at 17:06:21
E-Stat Audiophile Posts: 40851 Joined: May 12, 2000 Contributor Since: April 5, 2002	wanted to clarify why you showed two very different amplifiers. Are you biamping your 801s using both - presumably SS on bottom with tubes on top?

you are right (nt), posted on August 21, 2024 at 17:12:31
Leo loves music Audiophile Posts: 834 Location: NJ/NY Joined: October 14, 2021	.

RE: you are right (nt), posted on August 21, 2024 at 17:41:10
Leo loves music Audiophile Posts: 834 Location: NJ/NY Joined: October 14, 2021	My point here is not bi-amp. My point is that matching AMP can be very expensive and not elegant.

RE: you are right (nt), posted on August 21, 2024 at 17:45:47

Leo loves music
Audiophile

Posts: 834
Location: NJ/NY
Joined: October 14, 2021

CJ 17LS2 -> Cary V12 + Plinius SA102 -> B&W 801

+ other tweaks.

As an electrostatic enthusiast since the 70s, posted on August 21, 2024 at 18:32:40

E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 40851
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
Since: April 5, 2002

I fully understand the challenge of speaker/amplifier matching. Quite a few amps regardless of power don't deal well with the reactive loads.

Anything that Nelson Pass designed does since the 800A. His partner used Dayton-Wrights and Threshold demoed using stacked DWs at shows in the early 80s. High powered tubes like my VTLs work very well also.

In your case, the Cary would likely not be the best choice for driving the woofers. Similarly, the Plinius might not be the most delicate for the top.

RE: As an electrostatic enthusiast since the 70s, posted on August 21, 2024 at 18:40:58

Leo loves music
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Posts: 834
Location: NJ/NY
Joined: October 14, 2021

I have provided a link. But everybody is too lazy to read. So I copied his post here. Hopefully he doesn't mind the copyright issue.

I have provide a link. But everybody is too lazy to read. So I copied his post here. Hopefully he doesn't mind the copyright issue.

I followed the link but, posted on August 21, 2024 at 19:06:20
E-Stat Audiophile Posts: 40851 Joined: May 12, 2000 Contributor Since: April 5, 2002	wasn't going to be antagonistic about the speaker. I confess that I prefer a "tilted" frequency response with a bit of rise at the bottom and corresponding attenuation at the top. That's what I hear with live instruments. Bright is not what I seek. Cary is known to coddle the signal. :)

RE: I followed the link but, posted on August 21, 2024 at 19:21:22

Leo loves music
Audiophile

Posts: 834
Location: NJ/NY
Joined: October 14, 2021

In order to fix the B&W I used the following technique:
1. bi-amp
2. DIY BAF (bass alignment filter)
3. DIY bandwidth control

I have the B&W 801 Matrix S3..., posted on August 22, 2024 at 12:00:30

kootenay
Audiophile

Posts: 8824
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Joined: October 16, 2007

I haven't heard the 801 S2 so I can't comment on them. I have experimented with my 801 S3 with different amps and configurations from active to passive with different results. However, it has a frequency response of 24Hz to 25kHz at -+ 6dB with a nominal impedance of 4 ohms and a sensitivity of 87 dB. I have found that they do require lots of power to make them sing properly as they have a swingy impedance that can go as low as 2 ohms. This means it will require a powerful amp with a very stable power supply of 2 ohms.

Presently, I'm driving them with a Krell EVO 402 power amp that puts out 400w/c on 8 ohms and 1600 w/c on 2 ohms together with the Krell EVO 202 preamp. The sound is very dynamic and visceral devoid of brightness on the top end.

https://www.bowerswilkins.com/on/demandware.static/-/Library

this guy has a Krell FBP 600 and was not happy, posted on August 22, 2024 at 12:40:18

Leo loves music
Audiophile

Posts: 834
Location: NJ/NY
Joined: October 14, 2021

Power is not the issue.

Unhappy with B&W 801 series 3 speakers

Krell FBP 600 specs, posted on August 22, 2024 at 13:07:46
Leo loves music Audiophile Posts: 834 Location: NJ/NY Joined: October 14, 2021	8 Ohms 600W 4 Ohms 1,200W 2 Ohms 2,400W If this Krell doesn't have enough power, what else has? spaceX?

That guy's challenge ..., posted on August 22, 2024 at 13:10:54
E-Stat Audiophile Posts: 40851 Joined: May 12, 2000 Contributor Since: April 5, 2002	"The room is too bright, there is glass in 2 of the walls, but that isn't going to change."

Yes, we can always blame that the room is bright (nt), posted on August 22, 2024 at 13:28:37
Leo loves music Audiophile Posts: 834 Location: NJ/NY Joined: October 14, 2021	.

This guy is correct, posted on August 22, 2024 at 13:42:07
Leo loves music Audiophile Posts: 834 Location: NJ/NY Joined: October 14, 2021	"Changing the electronics made some difference, but usually not enough." He is also correct "I can tell you from direct, first hand experience, that in order to fix your problem, you need to get rid of the speakers. I can also tell you that you will definitely get rid of them. The only variable will be how much money spend trying to make them work."

Sounds like he has an issue with his listening room..., posted on August 22, 2024 at 13:50:26
kootenay Audiophile Posts: 8824 Location: Calgary, Alberta Joined: October 16, 2007	Everybody has its own preferences. I have a dedicated listening room with ample of room tunes which means the room is not bright to say the least. As I said I'm happy with the way the 801 S3 sounded as it synergized with the listening room much better than the Genesis III speakers that I also have.

Perhaps..., posted on August 22, 2024 at 13:52:03
kootenay Audiophile Posts: 8824 Location: Calgary, Alberta Joined: October 16, 2007	You should try it to see if you like it or not.

RE: Perhaps..., posted on August 22, 2024 at 14:01:12

Leo loves music
Audiophile

Posts: 834
Location: NJ/NY
Joined: October 14, 2021

Yes, everybody has his own preference. I do not like bright at all. I need midrange correctness.

I have achieved my goal. But I didn't try to matching the AMPs. I just used some natural sounding AMPs.

Thanks for the help.

This guy is correct again

"Keep in mind that any bandaid components you buy now, will probably not be a good match for whatever speakers you buy when you replace the B&W's."

Agreed..., posted on August 22, 2024 at 16:04:18
kootenay Audiophile Posts: 8824 Location: Calgary, Alberta Joined: October 16, 2007	I also abhorred the bright-sounding system as well...however, as always there's a place for everything and everything has its place. The bright-sounding system can be useful if the listening is unusually dead.

RE: Matching AMPs with Speakers, posted on August 23, 2024 at 14:40:46
Leo loves music Audiophile Posts: 834 Location: NJ/NY Joined: October 14, 2021	The beauty of Cary V12 is that, it can run 6 tubes per side, or 4 tubes per side, or 2 tubes per side. UL(class AB) or Triode (class A) with a switch flip. I assume SixPac can do the same.

DIY devices, posted on August 25, 2024 at 06:56:00
Leo loves music Audiophile Posts: 834 Location: NJ/NY Joined: October 14, 2021	These 2 DIY devices work beautifully in my system. 1. BAF Bass alignment filter. Added weight and tightness to the bass. 2. Bandwidth control. Effectively tamed the brightness of B&W 801 S2 speakers. It is fully adjustable so I can tailor to my taste on a particular CD/record.

RE: Matching AMPs with Speakers, posted on August 30, 2024 at 10:00:06
AbeCollins Audiophile Posts: 49084 Location: Maidenhead Grid Square DM79 Joined: June 22, 2001 Contributor Since: February 2, 2002	Yes, SixPacs could do the same but I always ran mine with 6 EL4 ea.

RE: Matching AMPs with Speakers, posted on September 11, 2024 at 15:22:24
Leo loves music Audiophile Posts: 834 Location: NJ/NY Joined: October 14, 2021	When I switched Cary to class A triode mode and Plinius to class A mode, the system sounded wonderful. I remember only very few systems I have heard sounded this good. Including a well over half million system, it was not even close.

RE: Matching AMPs with Speakers, posted on September 12, 2024 at 06:49:56
Leo loves music Audiophile Posts: 834 Location: NJ/NY Joined: October 14, 2021	Human rights. US government/agent stop torturing me. Stop using sonic weapon. GET OUT MY HOUSE!

Amp/Preamp Asylum

Matching AMPs with Speakers

69.118.107.235

I have provided a link. But everybody is too lazy to read. So I copied his post here. Hopefully he doesn't mind the copyright issue.