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Sunfire Amp

74.108.11.40

Posted on November 13, 2023 at 13:48:57
Ampzilla
Audiophile

Posts: 241
Location: New York
Joined: January 30, 2006
Of the Sunfire amp 2 channel which one best for A bass Amp

 

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RE: Sunfire Amp, posted on November 14, 2023 at 00:05:28
fantja
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Posts: 15450
Location: Alabama
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I can recall hearing Bob's 1st Sunfire amp back in the mid-90's.
Sounded great!

 

RE: Sunfire Amp, posted on November 14, 2023 at 20:39:27
hahax@verizon.net
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Posts: 4273
Location: New Jersey
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If I recall correctly the current output has a resistor in series which will significantly reduce the damping factor. The voltage output has a much higher damping factor which will control the bass response better.

 

RE: Sunfire Amp, posted on November 15, 2023 at 00:11:56
fantja
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Posts: 15450
Location: Alabama
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Excellent memory. I wonder if there are Audiophiles still listening to this particular Model in 2023 ?

 

RE: Sunfire Amp, posted on November 15, 2023 at 20:46:25
hahax@verizon.net
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Location: New Jersey
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Iam very successfully. By the way according to the Sunfire white paper and a good friend who has built lots of electronics the sliding power supply of the Sunfire allows the output devices to operate more linearly than for a conventional supply that runs at a high level all the time. The Sunfire supply stays withing 5 volts of the output signal all the time and the claim is output devices are most linear when the power supply voltage and output signal voltage are close. Interestingly I've heard claims small power4 amps sound better than large amps when both are playing at low levels. Could theis bea reason small amps may sound better at low watts?

 

RE: Sunfire Amp, posted on November 16, 2023 at 01:15:43
fantja
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Posts: 15450
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
Very nice- hahax.
Yes, Bob's design here, no doubt, lead other Amp manufactures to peruse the same train-of-thought. This Amp was my 1st taste of the High-End, other gear was an AMC cd player, Vandersteen 2Ce / 2Ci speakers with Audioquest cabling all around.

I am enamored with Conrad Johnson CAV45 (small) control Amp. It probably does not have enough Current (A) and Power to push my Thiel loudspeakers?
The CJ does sound excellent with monitors.

 

Bad matches for CS2.4, posted on November 16, 2023 at 13:28:20
Luminator
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Posts: 7218
Location: Bay Area
Joined: December 11, 2000
We had the Thiel CS2.4, and threw hundreds of thousands of dollars of electronics and cables at it.



The Conrad-Johnson MV-55 (above) was too "chewy-sounding" for the Thiel CS2.4.

The MV-60SE had mid bass punch, but lousy PRAT.

The MF2250A's dulled upper octaves left the CS2.4 (which has full extension up top) wanting more.

In many ways, the least-bad CJ amp was the hybrid ET-250S.

If listeners wanted the most life-like imaging out of the CS2.4, we used Classe' and MIT.

If listeners wanted to "watch the music unfold," we used the Simaudio W-7, with Shunyata Orion, Tara Labs The One CX, Wireworld Platinum Eclipse, or XLO Unlimited Edition. All cables were properly treated on an audiodharma Cable Cooker.

The CJ amps worked better with our, for example, Audio Physic, Penaudio, ProAc and Totem models.

 

RE: Sunfire Amp, posted on November 16, 2023 at 21:19:39
hahax@verizon.net
Audiophile

Posts: 4273
Location: New Jersey
Joined: March 22, 2006
The Sunfire is a high current amp. It doubles in power from 300 watts at 8 ohms to 600 at 4 ohms and I believe again at1200 watts at 2 ohms. Be sure to use the voltage outputs on speakers that need high current. The current outputs have resistors in series with the output which results in a damping factor like a tube amp(which is what they are designed for to simulate a high power tube amp sound) which means the amp and speakers with significantly varying impedance will result in non-flat frequency response from the speaker.

 

Low power = bad matches for CS2.4, posted on November 17, 2023 at 06:52:47
AbeCollins
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My Thiel CS2.4 are wonderful with the Manley Neo-Classic 250. These are 250wpc EL34 monoblocks. IMHO the Thiels require a decent amount of power. I still have them but they are in storage as I am using my Tannoy Definition D500 floor-standers. They allow me to use a wider variety of amps.

In the 1990's I ran my Thiel CS1.5 with Classe CA-200 and CA-300. The smaller CA-100 worked OK but the speakers came to life with the CA-200 and larger. My CJ Premier 11a didn't sound so great with the Thiel CS1.5 but the larger ARC VT-100mkII did a good job.



 

RE: Low power = bad matches for CS2.4, posted on November 17, 2023 at 09:14:01
Luminator
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Posts: 7218
Location: Bay Area
Joined: December 11, 2000



Christmas 1996. The Thiel CS.5 was driven by a Classe' CA-100. For the same price, we should have gotten, as an example, the Sonus Faber Concertino + Stand Fixed.



Christmas 1997. Thiel CS1.5 was driven by that same Classe' CA-100. Because of the crowded small room, and the stone wall behind the speakers, the Thiels had no chance. In this room, things got much better, when we replaced the CS1.5 with either ProAc Response One SC or Totem M1S.



In the background, you can see the Thiel CS2.4. I know we have photos somewhere, but we did try that CS2.4 with the low-powered Wright Sound WPA3.5 and Decware Taboo. Holy cow! Via a Simaudio Andromeda, we played the Thompson Twins' "Doctor! Doctor!" From the mid bass up, these two amps made the CS2.4 sound living, breathing alive! Alas, these amps could not control the bass, at loud enough levels. But still, it was like turning the clock back to Spring 1984, and having the Thompson Twins give a private performance for my homeroom or PAL baseball team.

 

RE: Low power = bad matches for CS2.4, posted on November 18, 2023 at 10:55:31
AbeCollins
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Location: USA
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In my limited experience with flea-power SET amplification I found the sound to be very intoxicating at low listening levels even with speakers that are not sufficiently efficient. I'm sure a 3-Watt amp will drive my Thiels to make some sound but even my Tannoys struggled to sound their best.

I had a pair of 45 monoblocks on loan to me and I think they put out a whopping 3 or 4 Watts. They DID sound very nice with my more efficient Tannoy Definition D500's which are 91dB 6 Ohm nom. but only at low listening levels. If I turned it up to normal levels or beyond, the bass became woolly and bloated. But it was very sweet and rich in the mids.

Cary CAD-45SE monoblocks


Tannoy Definition D500 speakers
Mfg recommended 30 - 175w RMS
91dB 6 Ohm nom. 4 Ohm min.




 

Had to keep the tubes away from our kids and parents :-), posted on November 18, 2023 at 12:45:23
Luminator
Audiophile

Posts: 7218
Location: Bay Area
Joined: December 11, 2000
Oooo, I wonder how those Cary 45 monoblocks would perform, with some of the smaller speakers I've lived with (with or without powered subs).

In the late-90s, I had the EL-34 based AudioPrism Debut, and started working for property management companies. Once colleagues discovered that I liked music and audio, they brought me in, and funneled products my way.

Like me, my few guy friends were subpar-to-mediocre college students. So almost by default, our girlfriends were smarter. In the early-2000s, friends reached that point, where the couple either breaks up of gets married.



So when we started to have kids, exposed vacuum tubes had to go.



It wasn't exactly "righting a wrong," but at my parents' place, we did finally get the original Sonus Faber Concertino. Back in the 90s, we should have gotten these stand-mounts, over the Thiel CS.5 and CS1.5.

For both audio and for my friends, Gwen Stefani's 2005 hit, "Cool" brought closure.



Here, the Concertino was on Billy Bags stands for the Totem M1S and ProAc Response One SC. Because the Concertino did not go deep, and had a nimble and energetic upper-bass, it was a terrific match with several tube amps, including the flea-powered Decware Tahoo and Wright Sound WPA3.5.



The Concertino, now on Sumiko's dedicated Franklin & Lowell stands, is blocking our view of the WPA3.5. Holy cow, this combo made you feel like news anchors and sports announcers were broadcasting from your living room! The combo did such a sublime job, on cool synthesizers, lightly-amplified Fender guitars, and vocal timbre and nuance.

The Decware Taboo and Wright Sound WPA3.5 were auto-bias, and didn't really give off that much heat. But with curious toddlers, vacuum tubes were at risk :-)

For me, the Thiel CS2.4 was at is best, when it made me feel like I was in the front row of the balcony. From that vantage point, you get to see the entire stage. Yet, by not being in the pit, you don't have to deal with the crowds.

Although our CS2.4 came with its own spikes, Sound Anchors bases, especially on carpeted floors, often brought about small but meaningful sonic improvements.

 

Just rotated mine through, posted on January 11, 2024 at 17:11:29
cabinum
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Location: South Carolina
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Contributor
  Since:
January 11, 2024
a while back as I waited on my current SS amp. Still love the Sunfire sound, especially bi-wired using both outputs with the AR Classic 30's, but the Magtech is in a league of its own. It's my second - sold my first Sunfire when I was young, dumb and full of it, and had to repurchase because I missed it so much, but managed to get a Flannery modded unit.

 

RE: Low power = bad matches for CS2.4, posted on January 15, 2024 at 07:37:54
farfetched
Audiophile

Posts: 936
Location: Cleveland!
Joined: October 13, 2010
This reminded me of why I never went for Thiels. At a dealer I heard an exquisite small-room setup that just was jaw dropping. I'm a clarity fiend, and this was such a soulful kind of clarity.

But I fortunately my realism kicked in. I could tell they were fussy speakers. I did not know for sure what my future rooms would be like. So I turned to the electronics part of my rig. Wise move. I ultimately heard some maggies and dipoles got me into that entire world, which is easy and lovely.

I could use a second sytem someday of course.


/ optimally proportioned triangles are our friends


 

RE: Low power = bad matches for CS2.4, posted on January 15, 2024 at 08:31:39
Cougar
Audiophile

Posts: 4529
Location: SoCal
Joined: June 25, 2001
On my year quest back when I was looking for the best speaker I could afford after my ESS AMT-D's surrounds started to rot. i listened to speakers from San Diego to LA, and found only a few that were buying that I really liked the sound. Thiel was one of them, I didn't care for the sound as to me they were bas shy and bright. I never took another look at their line after that.

 

RE: Low power = bad matches for CS2.4, posted on January 16, 2024 at 02:58:33
fantja
Audiophile

Posts: 15450
Location: Alabama
Joined: September 11, 2010
Thiel speakers are Maggies with Bass!

 

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