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In Reply to: RE: Interesting thoughts posted by cbrady on August 15, 2007 at 21:01:50
FOR COMPARISON, THE DRIVETRAIN OF THE EMT 930st Lotsa topics, but here :
""control of the drive wheel pressure is obtained by placement of the rubber feet under the motor."
.... is the dealbreaker.We could go thru my list again, and I could make comments on each aspect of your comments.
But what's definitely not going to happen at any point is that the Manufacturer here, that would be you---
...is going to say, 'wow, we really do have a lot more work to do on this idea and we'll just pull it while we change some things'.You don't care to offer the classic precision of a mechanical idler-drive.
Okay.You'd like your motor + electronics to take up the slack. Fine.
And, most important .... You'd like to offer your existing customer base a way to pretend they've got the trendy and au courant Idler/Rim sound.
By aftermarket-retrofitting a clumsy device that leans against the platter of the table they alread bought from you. So be it.Stick with it.
No matter what I may think, you're still light years ahead of HW's "idea". Light years.A motor from a Directdrive product that skips the precise coupling of an Idlerdrive, calls itself Rimdrive, and leans against the platter of an older Beltdrive product.
Underwhelming ...is only my opinion.
J.D.
.... I was cured, alright.
Edits: 08/16/07Follow Ups:
EMT sometimes considered the best idler drives on the planet, and yet even EMT put belt drive way third, idler second and after serious r&d direct drive at the top.
Teres have arrived at the same conclusion, and it should be interesting to watch the faithful convert belts to Verus over the next few months. Time will tell if the Verus rim-drive is good, bad or indifferent.
Others are working on ways to improve the performance of decks like the 301, using modern ideas and technology to create better motors, bearings etc, and the Verus will be another player in that mix. It won't work so well with the strobe platter though! :)
Verus may become the most important analog development for many years, cheap clones from China will be powering flea-market PL12Ds and allowing any vinyl fan to witness the sound that made records worth listening to in the first place.
The blue touch paper has been lit ................. :)
Or not, well in that case just leave the PL12D and take the Lenco. :)
"You don't care to offer the classic precision of a mechanical idler-drive."
So once more, what lack of precision are you referring to? We get it that you don't like the idea, but still don't see why.
Uhm, you're making it painful. See photo, previous post.
.... I was cured, alright.
Is that a technical term?It would appear that the manner in which the drive wheel pressure is applied to the rim of the plater may indeed be the weak link.
It is subject to quantum fluctuations in the force of gravity, while a simple spring, which forces the "Idler" against the motor capstan and the platter, is not subject to these small quantum fluctuations.
Clearly the a spring is superior. ;-)
Nobody here but us chickens.
Well, springs as components in a precise and minutely adjustable mechanical system that ensures just the right coupling ----
... as opposed to a gravity-assisted 'just-sit-it-down-where-you-can-see-it-rubbing-the-platter' situation .... ?
Well, yeah. Give me the Precise And Minutely Adjustable Mechanism.
Every time.
.... I was cured, alright.
Classic idler and Verus drive in theory both allow for as precise and minutely adjustable coupling as you would care to implement.
I do not know of any idler that however has capability for adjusting this parameter (other than blindly tweeking springs).
Repositioning of the rubber feet under the Verus motor allows for fine tuning of the drive pressure.
So in what way is there an idler advantage for this capability?
But once again we are beating a dead horse. I have spend a lot of time experimenting with drive wheel pressure. Easy to do with Verus by the way. Well guess what, the pressure really does not matter much at all.
BTW: placement of the motor is also quite unimportant. The motor just needs to be placed so that the housing is largely vertical. If the placement is off the motor will tilt slightly but the change in drive wheel pressure will extremely small which in turn is not at all critical.
JD, I can see that this offends your sensibilities, but I don't see that there is a technical issue.
Chris
Chris,This has got to be the last go-round on this.
The beauty of idler drive is that it gets you away from the hoplessly feeble "two islands" approach of separated engine and load...
that you have with the standard tiny-motor-and-rubber-band beltdrive situation.Various idler models I've mentioned do in fact have very precise mechanisms to adjust the coupling characteristic. Internal adjustments, not front-panel-dial kinda things.
This integral precision-mechanics approach, again, is the beauty of these models.
They represent the opposite side of the world from the Slush-Instead-Of-Pace effect you get with beltdrive.You may forgive me if I'm incredulous that
"Repositioning of the rubber feet under the Verus motor allows for fine tuning of the drive pressure." or
"If the placement is off the motor will tilt slightly ..."
represents anyone's idea of an improvement on simple rim drive.
Let alone an assault on the qualities of vintage idler-drive.
Especially, as mentioned, with the examples out there being so mechanically impressive (Emts, etc).
I am underwhelmed.And Harry's, (with the scout-ac-synch) --is laughable.
J.D.
.... I was cured, alright.
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