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In Reply to: RE: Does speed stability even matter? posted by ketchup on August 01, 2007 at 18:26:28
I have spent a great deal of time and energy on improving the short and long term speed stability of my Garrard 301 (which was already better than most belt drives) and have recently built a new TT which jumps a couple of notches further again.
When I reach the point of diminishing returns I'll stop. Until then, even allowing for the Beranek effect, I am convinced that improved stability is an unqualified bonus. I would go so far as to say that it's the sine qua non of great sound from a TT.Mark Kelly
Follow Ups:
The better the speed stability the better the sound, the point of the turntable matching the speed instability of a lathe (which probably is minimal) would COMPOUND the fluctuation, not somehow balance it out.
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Unless the motor and table where exactly the same, as well as the drag force of the cutter and sylus the speed in consistancies would occur at different times.
A slow-down on the cutter due to drag would sound "faster" played back with no error, on playback, stylus drag would sound "slower". At first this seems like it would cancel out, but on most tables the inertia would be diferent so it would not occur at the exact same point. Even worse if there is some sort of speed correction that would minutely increase the speed in response to sylus drag at the same time.
Picture the error amplitude as a wave, when two get stacked in the same direction the amplitude is increased.
Is that your point that if every thing was equal otherwise a slow down would become a speed up in playback? That would be really difficult to get right, but in theory you have a point. I think getting the amplitude of error as low as possible is the best we can do, and what most people rightly strive for.
Thanks for making me think about this instead of just making a statement,
-Erik
OK, we are on the same page. Initially I thought you meant that a slowdown of the lathe's platter would correspond to a "speed up" of the recorded sound when played back on a TT whose speed slowed down as the lathe did. Then I thought I might have been overlooking something.
To clear something up, I completely agree that matching the lathe's speed fluctuations is impossible. Unfortunately, it really is the only way to reproduce the frequencies and timing as they originally existed on the master before the lacquer was cut.
Thanks for your additional thoughts.
Mark,
I know it matters in general, but I'm talking about really refined TTs.
It sounds like you might be getting closer to a lathe in terms of speed stability. No way a stock 301 is near the speed stability of a cutting lathe, so I can see how you will improve sound by improving speed stability. I'm referring to improving on already refined TTs which are at or near lathe stability. If you can't speed up and slow down that platter during heavily modulated passages like the lathe's platter did, you will not reproduce the sound correctly.
I explained this more clearly in the Agon thread. Sorry for the "jumpy" writing style!
It is not a given that the lathe slows down under speed, I have seen no real evidence either way.
I think I have evidence that improving speed stability to well beyond the common levels is beneficial, which would tend towards negating the proposition that lathes slow under load as much as turntables do.
You are probably right in one thing - a Neumann VMS 70 would make a very nice turntable in my home. I even know where there is one in Melbourne (but it's being used).
Mark Kelly
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Pat O'Malley
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so -Mark Twain
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