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71.117.2.52
In Reply to: RE: Teres : "Direct Coupling ... a quantum leap in speed stability compared to traditional belt drive" posted by J.D. on August 01, 2007 at 11:34:41
There has been a long running thread over at A'gon/Analog forum on the topic.
I'm curious enough to have placed a request with Chris for a tryout on my own. I should get mine sometime mid Sept. Imagine a long waiting list of current Teres owners wanting to upgrade.
Consider this:
27 lb shot-loaded platter spinning on a beefy Teres bearing getting its drive via tire at the rim rather than belt.
The motor is something quite different from the previous Teres status-quo as well. A non-cogging AC synchronous with eddy current brake as damper and a separate power supply. Understand that the motor isn't off-the-shelf. Teres manufactures this item themselves! I'll forgive Chris for touting the "eddy brake" as an innovation. Every 301/401 and TD124 owner knows that "eddy current dampers" have been in use for quite some time.
Anyway I'm curious to see how the "Verus Upgrade" compares against my TD124. As it is now, the Teres that I have is very very good at delivering the goods in all but one critical area.....musical energy. It lacks that last bit of energy and explosive drive that a decent idler drive should produce. Perhaps this latest upgrade is the answer. Time will tell.
-Steve
PS: imagine a VPI Scout with a "direct coupled rim drive". I wonder what HW is working on these days?
user510's system
Follow Ups:
You would be surprised, then again maybe you wouldn't. Can't sit still too long in this business.
You should hear a Scout rim driven by a flywheel, amazing!!!!
You mean like an intermediate , or idler wheel drive, except with, presumably, an increased-mass intermediate wheel ?
J.
I think it's like they've been reading our mail. Well, not really. But consider ....
User 510 puts beltdriven Teres on the shelf after hearing classic Thorens rim drive.
J.D. won't shut up about the 'listen-thru' downside of idler versus the 'trashed timing' deal-breaker of beltdrive.
Mosin creates an Idler Drive table that makes great strides from the standard lenco renovation. With cosmetics to challenge the bigs ....
And most significantly ---
"Certus drive technology begins with a unique (patent pending) motor topology (permanent magnet, multi-phase synchronous)
with extraordinarily low torque ripple."
... Sounds more than a little like investigations already made and public from Mark Kelly.
J.
explains how his writings directly influenced Chris' thoughts on idler drive, and, thankfully, again reminds us of the debt we owe him for his revolutionary ideas on turntables in general, and idler drives in particular. And of course none of johnnantais overly-long missives would be complete without a reminder that there is no musical joy to be derived from any belt-drive tt, which are consistently 'trashed' by his own beautifully crafted Lencos.
I shall now take a moment to contemplate the genius that is.....johnnantais.
I don't want to rain on anyones parade but Johnnantais did not influence my thoughts about idler drive.
I have read some of his writings and have been amused about the imagined war between belt drivers and idlers. Actually I am just pissed off that nobody told me about it... No one even invited me to the battle.
of the Nantais Idlers' down the Main Street of Lenco Land.
In this far-from-unusual photo, johnnantais carefully explains to a woefully misinformed belt-driver that his equipment is shit, and he's a moron. Yes, there's trouble, and it starts with a 'T', and it ends with 'B', and that stands for Belt-Drive!
...... 'Spray'N'Wash', the Turntable. ......
Whilst thusly immersed, you can join all of us in rejoicing that his moment -- his Eureka, Big-Time, All-Or-Nothing Momemt -- is nigh.
Watch with sublime satisfaction as the Lenco L75 Intro article at Six Moons makes it's inexorable progress toward the light of day.
There is already material there to be joyous about, but soon -- Valhalla.
I can see the sharks being jumped, like never before, right now.
Hope they discuss the "Spin-Art" era.... My absolute fave.
Cowabunga. Surf's up.
!
the guy really does believe the world revolves around him..
The first 2 weeks of the "Despote" posts with him were enough with me.. I must have missed something .... why doesn't he post here anymore?
Have a great day!
Rick
May have something to do with the few rebellious peasants here who dare to call him on his arrogance and constant self-satisfaction over the Huge Changes he's brought to the world of audio. Not to mention that he's really boring. That's a bit different from the 'Despot' site where 99.999% of the posters are hero-worshipping johnnantais disciples, ready to drink the grape-flavored-but-a-little-coppery-tasting Grape Kool-Aid of their Exalted Master.
As an aside: there are people on this site who are, shall we say, determined in their beliefs in their own tt strategy. I have no problem with that, even when my own system is denigrated, because a) it's only stereo stuff b)none of them take on the mantel of Supreme Audio Adviser and c) who knows, I might accidentally learn something.
See this Clarisonus article from 2005. "Motors for Turntables - 1" J. Atwood. The article has a few parts and is worth the read if you haven't already. Link below:
I'll have to admit that I was really taken back at being "blown away" by my initial listen to the TD124 using a mediocre arm and the DL103-R cartridge. At that point I knew that the things that that this combo did well were the most important to me.
-Steve
user510's system
I think Chris was referring in that article to the use of an "eddy brake" with his Cetus Direct Drive TT as being the innovation of sorts.
Do you know if any of the Technics or any of the other older Direct Drive tables used an "eddy brake"?
Just curious.
Nobody here but us chickens.
_________________________
I do not believe the DD TT's used an eddy brake. They used a servo system to monitor motor speed, IIRC. The concepts involved here are very different.
Stu
I've got nothing on Technics. (Not that I wouldn't mind owning a nice sp10mk2)
I did read somewhere that "Eddy Brakes" have been in use on diesel-electric locomotives since their introduction way-back-when. In other words, that is how the locomotive stops the train, by an "eddy brake".
If I understand correctly The Verus direct coupled 'thingy' is an adaptation of the Certus direct-drive motor. Perhaps I should go back and re-read Chris's text.
-Steve
user510's system
A diesel/electric locomotive uses what is called a "dynamic brake" where the traction motors (the electric motors that directly drive the wheels) are re-wired through a series of relays and switches to work as generators with the main alternator of the locomotive providing the field current.
As the traction motors operating in braking mode create electricity it is sent to the dynamic braking grids (think super duty toaster wires) and converted to heat.
The system works really well on the newer locomotives, you can basically stop a train without using air actuated train brakes(the kind of brakes each car in the train is equipped with)!
--
Al G.
experience in the matter. I just didn't research the matter deep enough. I did come up with examples of eddy current brakes in use on rail cars however.
Here is one link to an example of an eddy brake being implemented on a rail car. Perhaps it isn't in wide usage yet, or if ever
user510's system
Which is a nice way of saying that everything to do with the braking systems in use today is 1940s technology, adapted from George Westinghouse's 1890s technology when it comes to air brakes.
None of the US railroads use anything as forward thinking as the eddy current braking system in the link provided. That system, I believe, is in use on the "bullet trains" of Japan. A Mag/Lev system would use a similar technology.
Fascinating technology but as long as our government is not interested in funding research for high speed passenger rail transport systems, that technology is a long ways off for the USA.
Sorry to mix politics into a perfectly rational discussion about magnetic propulsion! I was limiting my thinking to domestic rail!
I am rather interested in the Teres drive. It would simplify a project that I have been mulling over.
--
Al G.
I'm afraid my discussion about eddy current braking technology isn't going to go very deep. The example given in my previous link is a linear application. I do recall finding something somewhere about an application for a rotating disc that had eddy currents applied in such a way as to slow the rotating disc. Just like in the Garrard and Thorens examples but on a much higher scale of forces. Whatever.
re: NA railroad traditions. Yeah. They really are slow to adapt new technologies. And with a long tradition of same. Famous for it.
It brings to mind the lower Columbia River and the barge transports that operate between Portland and the Tri-Cities hauling grains and other agricultural products. It could have been the railroads getting that business, but for some reason they didn't seem interested. Hence the barge business.
Somebody different will have to come in and operate mag-lev transports. Perhaps an air-line company or similar once the public decides it wants it.
-Steve
user510's system
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