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In Reply to: RE: Good suggestion to use anti-skating as a test. posted by John Elison on June 19, 2023 at 22:03:03
Hi John,
I have bought a ton of used classical chamber and baroque LPs in the last year. They are mostly in very good shape (the only bargains left in used vinyl these days) but there can be some noise. My set-up is such that I can easily make a rip/needledrop so I do it as a matter of course for everything I play. One day (!) I will have them all processed and in a library (and it doesn't help when you make a significant turntable upgrade and want to record everything again :))
I am dubious that DSD capture is more immune to clicks and pops. The ADC in your TASCAM samples the signal in an identical fashion whether you use DSD of PCM. It will be an over-sampling type that uses several levels instead of 1-bit (a sort of hybrid DSD-PCM but much more like DSD than PCM). The differences comes in the decimation and, IMHO, any sound quality difference is more likely due to the different DAC structures to convert DSD and PCM.
I do my ripping using Audacity - those files are what I import into Vinyl Studio. That is what I meant by 'pre-ripped'. I only use VS for de-clicking but it is a complete environment for doing rips, processing and organizing files. The trial versions says you can do 5 albums free but it must mean you can make 5 rips before having to pay. As I only import WAV files from Audacity that must get around the free trial period and I've never paid up (though I should as I think it work the fee just for the de-clicking).
Thinking more about de-clicking in DSD - finding a click must be all about the sudden change in signal - the slope of the waveform. DSD measures only the rate of change of waveform so I thought it should be as 'easy' to identify clicks in a DSD file as in a PCM file, maybe easier. But, as I think more, the challenge will be in muting the click. PCM tells you the absolute value of the signal at any point so once the click is identified you swap in enough 0 samples to mute. In DSD swapping in 0 samples means leave the signal unchanged i.e. no change in slope. To mute the click you'd have to calculate a bitstream to ramp the signal quickly down to 0 volts, hold it there long enough to mute and then ramp it up quickly to the previous value before the mute - I expect that would be difficult.
Follow Ups:
The only digital signal processing I've ever done on my vinyl rips is to fade out volume in-between songs. I've never tried to remove clicks and pops. Like I said, I only copy clean records that have very little noise. However, even the small amount of noise in-between songs seemed to bother me.
When I began to copy vinyl in DSD128, I noticed that the noise in-between songs was almost non-existent. It used to bother me on my 24/96 PCM copies and that's the reason I would fade out the volume in-between songs. With DSD128, it doesn't seem to bother me at all. In other words, DSD128 doesn't seem to pick up low-level surface noise like 24/96 PCM. It still picks up clicks and pops, but my records have very few of those.
Best regards,
John Elison
"With DSD128, it doesn't seem to bother me at all. In other words, DSD128 doesn't seem to pick up low-level surface noise like 24/96 PCM. It still picks up clicks and pops, but my records have very few of those."I'm sorry John but that is not in keeping with your claim that your digital recordings of your LPs sound "just like playing the LP" (even going all the way back to your 24/96 recordings).
If the noise in-between songs sounds different then the songs sound different too.
Sorry I just couldn't let that pass.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Edits: 06/20/23 06/20/23
I believe DSD128 produces the same level of noise in-between songs as my turntable. In other words, I think my 24/96 PCM recordings emphasize vinyl surface noise.
I used to think my Alesis Masterlink made perfect copies of vinyl, but I was comparing only the music and not the noise. After hearing my first DSD128 recording from the TASCAM, I immediately thought it sounded even more perfect than my Alesis Masterlink. I now believe the Alesis Masterlink intensifies vinyl surface noise compared to the TASCAM.
It's quite possible the difference in noise levels between the two recorders is a result of different DACs and different electronics instead of different digital formats. Furthermore, after making my first DSD128 recording from the TASCAM, I had no desire to go back and make a PCM recording for comparison. In other words, I've never made a vinyl copy in PCM using the TASCAM.
Oh, well. Such is life!
Best regards,
John Elison
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