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All the time we have people who have things that generate noise back into their AC lines -- computers, switching amps, powered subwoofers, video displays. I'd like to be able to recommend some choices for low-cost power line filters.
These don't have to be super-duper audio grade things, as the main goal is to keep the nasties out of the wall wiring. But I'd like to avoid units with MOV's and/or ferrites. Thanks in advance for your suggestions.
Follow Ups:
is very good and priced well, I have 3 of them.
I also agree with Paul A, Topaz and other crystals can make a very nice improvement.
Edits: 11/06/09
Try this, it's free so to speak. Fool with mating cap to resistor values. The resistor should vary with the cap rating. Although the same resistor for all does work.
ET
Question "Authority", the mainstream media sucks - Go Independent and hold BOTH parties accountable instead of just the other guys!
I need music to help forget the reality of today
Your photo is missing...
no photo, drawings and build instructions, scroll down
ET
Question "Authority", the mainstream media sucks - Go Independent and hold BOTH parties accountable instead of just the other guys!
I need music to help forget the reality of today
The linky thingie is not there.
Maybe this link is what he intended.
Popularity is a rather iffy predictor of performance in a specific instance.
I think your best bet is to match the filter to the susceptibility of your devices. All you need is a couple of LISN's and a signal generator and you can measure the susceptibility of your stuff based upon whatever your internal criteria are for performance allowing for at least a first cut at what the filter needs to do.
Boring, but likely effective...
Rick
Here is the link. It was great fun to build and my power is cleaner than ever.
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/16/166361.html
Alan Maher's Power Enhancers and Infinity Accessories. Most are parallel filters and condition the AC ckts throughout the house.
I use a Brickwall surge unit. The stock unit sounds pretty good. No real ill effects, just a slight loss in transparency (as compared to using a better AC plug). In my system, dynamics are not affected with the 20A unit.
On a hi-rez system I would replace the captive plug, and perhaps the outlet. I ordered mine with a "hospital grade" outlet that appears to have some nickel plating. One might want to ask Brickwall if they offer an unplated brass outlet. I replaced the brass plug with a solid copper plug and gained some transparency-resolution.
I think the filtering is pretty mild. The unit is mostly for surge protection.
I have a BPT Pure Power Center downstream of this for my audio system. I also have my video system plugged into the Brickwall. I don't have any noise problems (even with the TV on). I believe in large part to the Kaplan cables I use, and the BPT. The microwave oven will put a bit of noise into the system if it's running. No big deal to me as I can control its use.
If you watch ebay you can catch an iso/regulator like a Topaz Line 2 (made by Square D) or other unit for short money. These were the thing to have before UPS became affordable. I can tell you that electronics run behind one of these will last forever. At least my audio or computer electronics that never saw straight line voltages have never had a problem, and some of them are over 25 years old. If it gets a peak that it can't bring down into regulated range, it cuts off.
For a long time now.
This Leviton Power Line Current Conditioner Surge Suppressor Noise Filter made a huge difference in my system for only $64 including shipping. I was astonished at the improvement in overall transparency and bass impact. It is easily the most cost effective item I have ever purchased for my system. This thing is large, bigger than a car battery and just as heavy, but quiet in operation.
It is exactly what you are looking for. If you owned a high end store you could easily sell these for $250 or more (buying them for $45).
I just got the last of the three Leviton Power Line Current Conditioner 1200-LC model and it is new. Works very well and the Sat TV is working much better and it used to go crazy if I was recording music using my ADC unit on the 88200 sample rate. On my audio equipment the bass is stonger and clearer. Works much better than putting on ferrite chokes on the line.
I read your original post on that, and tried to chase one up. I live in Canada, so shipping heavy stuff from the tool company could get expensive. I called Leviton in Ontario (thier Canadian technical support line) and asked about this model. The gentleman at the other end of the line told me that Leviton got out of the power conditioning business some 8 years ago, and that the model your post refers to has not been made by them in all that time.
Does the tool company have a really old stock of these things...or are they used and refurbished...or?
If you're in Vancouver, ship it to Point Roberts, WA (google "the letter Carrier") and pick it up in Twwassenn (sic). I do it all the time. Absolutely no hassle. Just send it in your name to their address. $3 charge. I think they keep packages for a few months.
Actually, for $45, I might give it a shot.
OK, that explains three things:
1. why I couldn't find any other source for this devise on the internet and why I couldn't find any reference on the Leviton sight.
2. why this incredible devise is so cheap.
3. why I couldn't find any of the other models listed on the spec sheet for sale anywhere.
So, it appears that this is a new old stock item (definitely new) and when their stock is gone there will be no more. I bought two, one for the stereo and one for the office.
I picked up an 1800 VA unit used, for $35 delivered. A multiple tap transformer provides some voltage regulation, and three pairs of outlets each have their own RF filtering.
Best,
CAC
Designs have been published here for parallel filters made in properly safety rated R-C arrays. Those are what I use mostly and they're damn good! Remember: SAFETY FIRST- ELECTRICITY CAN KILL!!!!
The one commercial recommendation I can make unequivocally is Alan Maher's Infinity Circuit Breaker passive filter for $25 each. No kidding, these are fantastic and have multiple uses.
piezoelectric crystals placed on power inlets, transformers, or any number of other places absorb high frequency hash on the line, and this ends up having more of an impact on the soundstage and clarity than other forms of interference like AC hum. Topaz works more consistently than quartz and is dirt cheap. A lifetime supply costs about $10.
I'm aware that some of the piezoelectric substances do indeed have this filtering effect and am going to experiment with them next. How did you determine how much to use and where? Trial and error?
You could do a search on this forum under quartz, tourmaline or topaz and get some ideas. I've had good luck on top of components, power inlets, transformers, near tubes, near speakers--just about anywhere. Here are pictures of my preamp and phono pre with tourmaline and topaz inside:
And here is an image of my breaker box:
All of these crystals made a very noticeable improvement, but I've taken the black tourmaline out of the preamps and didn't notice any change.
Edits: 11/04/09
... are they just sitting there or have you glued/taped/fixed them in some way?
I used silicone which remains flexible after it has set. According to unclestu52, providing some flexibility to the crystal mount is necessary to convert the electromagnetic energy into mechanical vibration. See the link below for his explanation. If you look for his posts on crystals, you can find a lot of information on the physics of crystals along with his speculations and experiences.
bleep
It looks like more people are finally catching on to what Machina Dynamica( Brilliant Pebbles) has been using for quite some time. (o:
Yes, trial and error is all you can hope for when experimenting with various crystals, etc. Too much can over-dampen and strangle the music.
Looks like we can find a space to agree out here in the Outer Limits where EVERYONE back at WC thinks we're nuts!
;-)
Yes,
I have known of the virtues of crystalline structures regarding things audio since the Brilliant Pebbles were introduced. All the while, the naysayers put poor Geoffkait through Hell, slamming his Brilliant Pebbles. (o:
There are some real scientific explanations for the effect of piezoelectrics on electrical fields. That would mean on or very near to terminations, cables, power supplies, components. So some of Geoff's crystals on those places may indeed have been ahead of their time in the audio world - maybe, depending upon what crystalline structures he is using.
What explanation can you offer for crystals in a jar placed away from these?
I think that's the difference here. I'm not impugning Geoff nor am I familiar from actual experience with more than one of his products - and I'm not interested in a flaming debate!
Just a thought on why some things work, though they aren't familiar to all, and why some things probably don't, though by now everyone in the US has heard about "crystal power" for decades... YMMV
The answer is very simple for the crystals placed away from the equipment and cables, etc. - i.e., out in the room. The crystals operate as energy absorbers, reduce the unwanted effects of standing waves, early reflections, and vibration. Especially, but not exclusively, in room corners. The theory that crystals must be near an electrical source is incorrect. Even when the crystals are used on cables or in equipment the electricty/electromagnetism theory is incorrect.
Edits: 11/04/09 11/04/09
You said:
The crystals operate as energy absorbers, reduce the unwanted effects of standing waves, early reflections, and vibration. Especially, but not exclusively, in room corners.
You are speaking here of mechanical vibration in the air mass. Of course they are impacted by vibes in the room and piezoelectric materials characteristically generate an electrical field as a response to mechanical pressure. They convert one to the other in both directions. They have a big enough impact by converting from electrical field energy to mechanical energy on the sound when close to the source. But the impact in the way you describe is infinitesimal, to my way of thinking.
YOu also say:
The theory that crystals must be near an electrical source is incorrect. Even when the crystals are used on cables or in equipment the electricty/electromagnetism theory is incorrect.
Then you are operating from some theory that I've not run across, Geoff. The impact of the electrical field falls off proportionately to the distance from the source of those fields. To convert the electro=magnetic to the mechanical would require some proximity to the elecrto-magnetic source to be effective.
I'll admit that my physics is rather old (or I'm old and my knowledge is outdated), but I don't think the universe has changed that much!!! LOL
You studied physics of crystal structures in school? Interesting....my undergrad thesis involved bombarding magnetized metal crystals with high speed ions. What was yours?
Edits: 11/04/09
nt
Yep, been using Topaz in Brilliant Pebbles for 7 (count 'em) years. Among other crystal types. Power to the pebble.
You can get a BPT Pure Power Center with filtering. I've used the non-filtered with Oyaide outlets and was pleased.
...is the latest Monster HTS1000 or whatever - I think it's a MkIII now.
Designed by Richard Marsh and available everywhere locally for under $200. Most will give you your money back if you don't like it.
I recommend people try it on the CD player first, where it will make the most difference.
I've been using one on mine for about 10 years.
I forgot to say what I considered "low priced". Less than that is better of course!
I've liked it as a low-cost low-budget option:
/
Best price I found was $116 with free shipping:
I've been here very regularly for 10 years (almost every day), and I simply cannot remember a manufacturer, and a well-known one too, asking for advice like this.
I hope your respect for the Tweakers' Asylum is rewarded by some excellent suggestions. Good on you, mate.
Regards,
Geoff
I know of a really great power filter, but it's too expensive for most people just to keep the junk off their AC lines from the switching power supply in their video display.
I often find the opinions here to be well considered, for the most part. There is always the "it must be great, because I bought it" aspect. But unlike magazine reviewers, people here have generally lived with their choices for months or even years. There is nothing like the test of time.
I wish I had time to sit down and listen to 20 different power line conditioners, but I don't. So I figured that I would get a short list to investigate. Also a lot of times the inmates know of some "sleepers" that I've not yet heard of.
(nt)
Of course, there's the Hammond 193L or 193M chokes across the power line tweak... cheap, does make a nice difference, but I haven't personally compared it to anything else.
Kenster, good to know about the MIT DIY filter, I've been looking at that.
Greg in Mississippi
P.S. Charles, I'd tried to contact you in the DIYAudio forum with a question... and realized you don't frequent that board anymore (don't blame you!). I have a question regarding some comments you made there about regulators... if you're willing to take them, please contact me via the AA email an inmate facility. TIA!
I prefer not to spend my limited amount of time in private e-mail discussions. It's better to do it in public where others can benefit from the time it takes to do all that typing.
See if you can join diyHiFi.org instead. A much nicer place for the serious audiophile. If they are not accepting registrations, please e-mail me at chansen at my (four letter) company name dot com and I will make a brief reappearance at diyAudio.com.
Charles,
That is fair. I am already a member of diyHiFi.org.
But the request is one where you might want to respond privately.
My counter-offer... I'll email my message from diyAudio.com to you (it was in their current incarnation of a private message). If you want to take it public, respond with that and I'll start a thread on diyHiFi.org. If not, respond as you see appropriate.
Greg in Mississippi
I picked up an MIT DIY AC power conditioner at RMAF and was not expecting much for $115 but this thing is amazing for the money.
I plugged it in my HT power circuit feed 2 outlets before the PS Audio
PP600 AC regenerator and damned if it didn't clean up the video monitors
display producing more 3D images and it even dropped the noise floor in the main rig in the other room.
There is a noticable difference betweeen using the push-on connectors vs. soldering the wires to the module and using the newly released Oyaide solder was a definate improvement over the push-on connectors.
Cheers,
~
Kenster,is this the filter you purchased?
Yes it is.
~
Harmonix's Line Enacom is pretty simple, cheap, yet effective, but I guess it is just like the capacitor tweak recommended by many that one can DIY for even less money.
I find it to work well even in conjunction with other powerline filters (mine are not expensive, just early and low end model Chang Lightspeed and mid line Isotek filters).
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