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I read several posts on using innertubes under hi end rig. I experimented this tweak and it works for me. (Used scooter size for half-inflated inner tubes, the latter sitted on an aluminium rack with braces---but without shelves).I did not find any observation that, once say the CD player nicely oscillates on the inner tubes, wiring can be a constraint (mains cable or interconnect cable). If a cable's tension is too high, the cable can limit the oscillation of the rig and the sound looses some air. Also, there is oscillation interplay between the devices.
Any suggestion or trick so to avoid this problem with cables? Note that the impact is more dramatic than the case in which the rig is on standard rigid shelves. So, the best I could find is to leave the cables loose, so that the oscillation of, say, the CDP (or of its mains cable due to sound virbations) does not cause too much oscillation of the pre, etc.
Thanks
Roberto
Edits: 01/24/09Follow Ups:
The weight of the cables restricts the free motion of the device on the tube. I saw a picture of a system in the gallery where the wires were suspended by strings hung from little wooden T-shaped holders. The owners purpose was to keep to wires separated. I suppose you could rig up some kind of suspension for the cables. The wires could actually be thought of as a damper to excessive motion by the air bladder.
I think we're entering the area of diminishing returns for the effort.
This is a tricky area, the balance between considerations about damping down vs isolating from vibrations. I also think that the isolation is more important for players like turntables and CD spinners than it is for solid state electronics. Now don't anyone jump on me for heresy. I didn't say that solid state devices are uninfluenced by mechanical motion just much less so than players. Players may need more isolation and SS may need more damping relative to one another. Everything is in motion: floors, walls, ceilings, windows, and the air that sound is transmitted through. I suppose with sensitive enough devices these residual hums could be isolated. Each listening space will have its own signature. It may be that to try to decouple the stereo system from this basic signature may result in more disharmony than simply allowing the reproduction system to remain in synch with the listening space. Don't mean to set off a firestorm of nitpicking.
At some point we're much better off just going out and listening to live music. (But that's not the point is it.)
Enjoy the music.
I'm a painter. I have a switch on the side of my head that I turn off when I'm looking at art for pleasure. If I leave that switch on then all I do is analyze: is that edge too sharp, should the distance be more blue, would I have used cad red or alizarin crimson, like that.
I could tweak one of my own paintings to death if I left that switch on all the time.
Enjoy the music!
Bill
I agree with you Bill, too much decoupling/damping may not give the hoped result. I decided to left the cables as they are. I admit there is a little more distortion than damping them, but I'm more involved by the sound in this way, my final goal. Thanks for your observations.
-Roberto
I have been a long time advocate of component isolation from the equipment rack and inner tubes are very adept at providing that isolation although I use 6 inch or 8 inch wheel barrow inner tubes inflated to 3-5 PSI depending on component weight/size.
Once people realize just how detrimental an effect their component rack has on their components, then they can take steps to realize their true component's potential.
Excellent work sir
~kenster
Thanks Kenster, I thought that it was a crazy idea to sit a CD player on an oscillating device such as an inner tube, until I put some bubble wrap under its feet... I realized that I wanted that sound again... the road is still long as the cables are a physical constraint to the oscillation and so we should find a way to decouple also them from the device.
Cheers
Roberto
In some cases, it can be a pain in the a$$ to route the cables so as not to interfere with the component isolation and if the cables are exerting a pulling force on the component(s) and not allowing them to rock free, then it does have a detrimental effect of the purity of the sound.
Also the amount of air should be experimented with in relation to component size/weight to ensure the resonance is low enough for proper
isolation. Don't forget that even though the component is isolated from the rack via the air interface, the rack resonance signature still needs to be addressed as it will still infiltrate into the component.
Cheers
To geoffkait: when I indeed put together the mains wires, the one leading to the CDP came into tension and the sound lost quality. I think completely decoupling the cable from the floating base is an interesting engineering question.
To BillF: my pictures give the wrong impression that the inner tubes are too inflated. Consider that these tubes are for motorbikes/scooters and I removed a lot of air (their diameter more than halfed). I also found a right balance between air pressure and sound, so that I can keep the rig balanced by just offsetting w.r.t. the inner tubes (they are not perfectly centered for this reason). CDP and pre weight 16 kilos each, while the amp is 26 kilos.
As for putting a wook block between the tube and the CDP, it is not a good idea in my case. I'm not saying that in general. But the flavor of my solution is different. Since the base of my rig is always mildly warm, I put the tube in direct contact with the base in the zone delimited by the feet. External air can also flow bottom up, which is good for the equipment and for inflating/deflating (if necessary). Instead, with the wood block, the feet are just on the block rather than on tubes, and the sound becomes muddy.
The reason is that I should follow a different idea: put also a wood block _under_ the tube, remove more air from the tube as you suggest, and use two tubes so that they are aligned with the feet (I also left a "tunnel" under the tubes to avoid air spring effect). In this way, under each foot we can find a sandwich of wood+tube+wood. I tried the latter but the simpler the better: the solution in the picture gives a better sound in my rig since there is no additional sound coloration caused by the wood.
Cheers
Roberto
I understand your colorization issue with the wood on your higher resolution system. My player doesn't run very warm. I did cut out large 8 inch holes under my Denon AVR 3803 for cooling. Since I'm just running this low resolution system with a Denon 2900 player I don't think I'll hear much color from the mdf. The 2 outlaw 200s are on the top shelf. The wood cabinet as a whole probably provides more than enough color, lol.
Bill
NT
A quick update: I put a thin layer of blue tac between the female IEC connector of the mains cable and the mains male connector on the CDP, and I can hear a sensible improvement.
I wanted to point out that the influence of cable vibrations is more evident when using air cushioning for our rig. I did not notice this when using standard shelves.
-Roberto
As you said you don't want any forces impeding motion of the bladder and suspending cables w/ thread/twine is the best way to zero out the cable forces.
Less air in tubes. You want them kinda mushy but be careful about the balance. Unit tends to lean after awhile. The tension of the cable tends to pull at the unit as you've discovered. I've placed a wood block on the tube and then the player on the tube. I glued a lip on the front edge of the board to cover the tube a bit.
BillF
Current event. Popped a dvd in and it wouldn't play. I did a double-take and saw the player had tipped way back. It must have reached the balance point and my pushing the play button sent it over the edge. I've been shoving the cabinet around trying to move my speakers closer together.The only result has been to knock my player out of alignment. Good thing it had no place to go in the cabinet or it might have landed on the floor. After I pulled it forward and stuffed the inner tube back further and rebalanced the unit, it played. That's what I don't like about the tube, it's a balancing act and why I stuck the board under there to begin with. BillF
Edits: 01/26/09
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