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Been looking at some CBS/Hytron relabeled as Zalytron. Can someone tell me how they sound please or what their characteristics are? Using some RCA NOS early 40's grey glass VT-231 right now. I like them but wanting to try something different. Maybe something with good detail and transparency but not syrupy and too laid back. Also don't want hyper detail with in your face kind of sound.
I was going to purchase some Black Treasure CV-181 but was told they are NOT as good as a NOS tube.
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The CBS/Hytron tubes are very transparent and devoid of a sonic signature. Very neutral tube. They are not as punchy as some other 6SN7 tubes (Metal base 6SN7W).
So if the tube was a boxer, it would be Muhammed Ali, not Mike Tyson.
The best tube is the Tungsol 6sn7 round plate.If you get those,prepare for your wife to serve you divorce papers or take control of your bank account.
The Raytheon staggered plates are a great as are the RCA gray glass.
When problems become increasingly difficult,we can always rely on our collective knowledge and seek relief.
I have some RCA grey glass from the early 40's. I like them but wanting to try something different. Don't think I will purchase the Round Plates but which Raytheons are you talking about Michael? The 50's GT or 40's GT?
I've always found the CBS/hytrons 6SN7s (not the 5692s) a little midrangey. I'm partial to the Raytheon 6SN7WGTs. They are well balanced with reasonably good detail.
Oddly enough, in some gear, the EHs can work well too.
Jack
Boy these are great tubes. But very hard to find any good ones around these days. Most I've seen for sale looked pretty worn out. In fact, it's easier to find older Raytheon flat and t-plate VT-231's. All are good tubes. If you can get quiet, well-testing ones.
Even in the days when you could get NOS/NIB Raytheon WGT(A)'s--- early 1990's, it was getting hard to find quiet metal-based Sylvania 6SN7W's. From what I can remember, the Sylvania has this great top end (high notes). But, is a little prone to microphonics. The Raytheon has a great mid and bass. And can last forever.
As for TSRP... I haven't seen a good pair for sale in a long time. I have only one pair left. I take them out every now-&-then just to admire the craftmanship. Pretty silly, really.
I have a pretty good stash of Sylvanias, including some Metal base Ws. They are fortunately quiet, however I have a few regular base Ws which are very microphonic. Still I strongly recommend them to the OP the sound is uncomparable. Ws are unfortunately scarce and really expensive but I do like almost any variant of Sylvania GT but especially seek out the heavily chrome domed types with T plates and top getters. That also includes the easier to find WGT- not the WGTA however -and the GTA early production only not the triangle plates GTA/GTB. ( Those GTBs are pretty good BTW but nothing like the earlier tubes)
I also have quite a few Raytheons. The "flat" plates are quite good, solid, clean and quick sounding tubes. The T plate version has better bass if I remember correctly.
There are a bunch of really decent 6SN7s out there to try, have fun!
Kevin Deal has some Raytheon WGTs. They don't work in all gear, but they are nice tubes. I've got buttloads of Sylvanias, of various types and vintages. I eventually grew a bit tired of their house sound. I only have one metal based W. I've used it as a voltage regulator-it was neutral and hyper-detailed. I was never a fan of the TSRP- always thought they were a bit too edgy for my taste.
As always, YMMV.
Jack
Jack, yeah I find that amps that really push the 6SN7 hard (like some early 1960's Ampeg amps)--- the Raytheon really shines. These 1940-50's made mil spec tubes can take forever to break-in. Sometimes, it's hard to take that "house sound" for the length of time needed for the tube to hit a steady-state tone.
What type of equipment are you all using? Is this on homebuilt or commercial equipment? Are we talking line level or power amplifier drive stages with large signal swings? What source material? I've tried lots of different 6SN7s over the years, largely as a result of buying them in mixed lots and have found them to be remarkably consistant on bias points and response. With the same signal level (volume) I have not noticed any difference between them in their sound. I'm in my early 50's now so maybe it is just my ears, but I have used these tubes for over 20 years and can't honestly describe any sonic difference in a well designed circuit. It isn't that I don't believe all of you, I'm honestly curious what your set up and equipment is that produces these results.
Im using a pair in a Bottlehead FPIII linestage. Pretty easy to hear differences between brands in general, Sylvania, RCA, Raytheon, GE etc. Not so easy, for me, to hear them within brand, atleast not tubes with similiar internal structure. My Favs' bang for buck are the Sylvania GTA's/GTB's, "chrome tops". I cant hear much if any difference between the angled or parallel "T" plate versions, GTA or GTB. Any differences between those "common" tubes and the more expensive VT-231 or brown base "W"'s are subtle to my ear and not easily described. And for me, not worth chasing more of them for the signifigantly higher price. The linestage is part of the headphone system at present. While I could settle in and be happy with many of the NOS tubes that I have (except for the Raytheons), there are definite differences between different manufacturers tubes that arent at all difficult to discern.
If a circuit has gain stages without feedback of any kind it is easy to hear differences between 6sn7's.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
But are you hearing a real difference between tubes or just a change in operating point due to a slight difference in the tube operating points? My experience is that if you have 150 to 200 volts on the plate (not the plate supply) and an operating bias of 5 to 7 ma the differences between properly operating tubes is not audible. I can see it would be if you operate on the extremes or if you have tubes with widely different wear.
I sat in on a local listening session a few years ago. The host had just completed a line stage. His workmanship left much to be desired but he did have a very nice listening room. He played a couple songs through his linestage, then switched tubes. The second tube was awful, with very high distortion and a compressed sound. Turns out he wasn't comparing like tubes, the point of his listening session was to show how much better a 12AX7 was compared to a 12AU7. Needless to say there was a huge difference, but it had nothing to do with the tubes, it was a matter of the operating point being at least OK for the 12AX7, but way too low for the 12AU7. So yes, he showed a difference, but it wasn't a valid test.
The driver stage of my current power amplifier uses a 6SN7. I spent a good deal of time selecting the proper operating point for it. The 6SN7 is very consistant in the 5 to 7 mA range and as a result every tunbe I have tried biases to roughly the same point and I really can't say I notice any difference in sound between tube brands. I've been very careful to keep the volume level the same.
Again, I'm not saying there aren't differences, I just can't confirm them. But honestly it seems like this huge difference between brands is largely fueled by people that sell tubes.
Would there not be within spec differences between operating points of different tubes of the same tube brand and type?
That is exactly what I think the "differences" really are. If you re-bias the tube to a different operating point the harmoinic content of the output signal will be different. The 6SN7 has a very large linear range compared to say a 12AT7 so it would have to be altered quite a bit but that could make for a very different response.
All of the tubes mentioned control current in a vacuum through wire leads. I'm not sure what about that would result in such a drastically different sound, especially something like "more forward". There are differences due to manufacturing but again if you bias near the midpoint these differences are minimal.
I belive you will find these differences to be orders of magnatude less than say the sound of different speakers.
My point was that I cant hear a discernable difference, for example, between two different pairs (same or similiar internal construction) of the same Sylvania 6SN7GTB's but I can hear differences between different tube brands. Surely the two different pairs of sylvanias would have different, within spec, electrical properties. No, not as vast a difference between tube brands as changing loudspeakers, but readily discernable differences nonetheless. I have to attribute this to sonic differences between the tubes themselves, not only due to different operating points which should still be within "spec" between properly functioning tubes of different manufacture.
All made by Sylvania.
"You don't need to be a Weatherman to know which way the wind blows"
Thought I would chime in ;> )
I favor the Sylvania GTB chrome tops..
I have a pair of RCA coin based GTBs (later vintage)that have a more detailed sound than most of the other 6SN7s that I have.. interesting.
Considering their linearity and sweet sound, the 6SN7 will always be part of my collection and builds. I just wish their plate resistance would better accommodate IT coupling...
Cheers
Stuben
Hi
I've rolled a few 6sn7 myself. My favorites are Sylvania short short glass gt versions and RCA clear bottle black plates gt versions. I know that tube rolling can be a highly subjective experience. To my ears these two tubes sound the most transparent.
I also like Sylvania VT-231. The mid sounds a bit thicker than the tubes i mentioned earlier.
Hope this helps.
Timp
I've designed a lot of tube amplifiers and preamplifiers with the 6SN7 and listened to them with a wide variety of music. I tend to bias them around 200 volts and 5 to 7 mA. I have used them at low levels and as a 300B driver that had a 300 volt swing (that one had a 600 volt plate supply and sat at 300 volts nominally) but I really can't say I can hear any difference from one properly functioning tube to another. When I have noticed a difference it was due to a used tube that had low transconductance. I'd like to know what type of equipment people are using that produces really noticeable differences (assuming the volume is always hte same for comparison). The 6SN7 properly biased is a very linear tube and very consistant from brand to brand from my experience.
Besides the Tung Sol round plate I never auditioned, after the many other 6SN7s the Sylvania 6SN7GTA with the angled plates produced the most clear & detailed sonic signature. My amp did not find these tubes edgy.
I find tubes that are too warm will not reproduce concert hall echo with clairity. It gets partly lost in the mix (mush).
I am a big fan of the CBS 6SN7GT. More linear and accurate than any of the RCA tubes in this family. The RCA "house sound" is bit too rich/warm for my taste.
I hear CBS/Hytrons are good tubes but are prone to short out easily. A member told me he hasn't had good luck with them but it could be just bad luck.
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