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Has there ever been a published "shoot out" of them?
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speakers sound more open with no grill. the ones with the molded or shaped frames would sound better with the cloth removed from the frame.
richard vandersteen has said that if the cloth isnt in close proximity to the driver, the bounce effects wont be there, hence the non removable cloths on I, IIs, and IIIs. probably true
...regards...tr
I recall that burlap was the most transparent off-the-shelf material as judged by a large scale manufacturer of room treatments -- absorbers/diffusers, etc.
Otherwise, I have had fine results with sheer loose weave material. If you can see through it and "blow" through it, it should be fine.
100 vestal virgins and shave all of the peach fuzz off their arms and form said fuzz into a material, this material will lift at least 2 veils more than ordinary high-performance audiophile grill cloth...
Now, bad humor aside. You have me wondering about something.
Could changes in grill cloth be actually measurable? Audiophiles sometimes think they can hear +/- 0.1db differences (ha ha!) but I find (for me anyways) changes in frequency response are quite hard to detect unless they are at least an order of magnitude higher (or even higher yet in some circumstances).
I believe a trip downstairs to the laboratory is in order....
Thanks for the brain food! :P
Cheers,
Presto
Dunno about differences between grill materials, but the difference between grills on and off is really noticeable. With typical open-weave polyester grills, I've measured a -.75dB or more attenuation above 12kHz on the tweeter axis at one meter, vs. with the grills removed. And that definitely sounds duller, with a loss of "shimmer and sparkle" at the very HF. If the grill frames stand out from the baffle, there will also be diffraction issues off the frame.
The best grill during listening is none at all, but grills are useful to protect the drivers from bumps and dust. Best if they're removable for serious listening.
Don't automatically chuck the grills. Some speakers sound better with the grills on. Some speakers have grills that are designed to work with the drivers and the cabinet during playback.
. . . you look at the vast majority of S'phile speaker reviews, where JA measured response with grills both on and off, and you see some serious degradation of HF performance with the grills on. Not only is the top octave suppressed a bit, but a bunch of peaks and dips appear, probably due to diffraction effects.
Now a PROPERLY designed grill won't do that, if the speaker was voiced with the grill in place. Some Paradigm models, for instance, where the grill frame is designed to fit snugly around the protruding driver frames, giving the effect of flush mounting the drivers on a flat baffle. Those would most likely sound worse without the grills.
I try to design my DIY projects for maximally flat response with the grills off, but find that with "hot" recordings, the grills do help ameliorate some excessive brightness.
that among fabrics the least harmful to the high frequencies were silk and sheer spandex. The problem is the best fabric is going to be somewhat transparent so if you need more aesthetically pleasing coverage then the acoustic quality will take a hit.
It's a trade off between looks and sound quality; it almost always is.
Lowest cost for silk fabric and gauze by the yard is at Dharma Trading Co. $3 to $4 a yard
air.
Unless you need a grill cloth (pets, inquisitive todlers, etc), why use one?
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If this is a bass driver and not a coaxial, then I wouldn't worry about the transparency of the grill material.
Lycra is a very sheer and strechy fabric that can be found in most fabric stores.
Barry
rw
Not that it will do you any good, but I'd bet on Harbeth.
I don't know about a shootout but there are a couple things that have no measurable effect with a TEF machine (inaudible effect). One of the best is spandex which is available at most fabric stores.
This stuff stretches in both directions making it idea for a sock type grill. Perforated metal can be pretty good if it has a large % open area and holes about 1/4 inch in diameter.
Avoid heavy think cloth and consider no grills if the design allows it.
Best,
Tom Danley
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Yeah, i know what you mean, something like this.
Enjoy!
nt
"If the audio industry built gear that sounded as good as it did 50 years ago, there would NEVER be a need to re-issued anything!"
a very fine weave Spandex. Years ago, I "re-socked" Acoustat 2+2s and found a dealer who had done that before. They used Spandex as well. When I installed the first sock, I was initially upset because it appeared as though they were too short. What I discovered was that I hadn't yet stretched them sufficiently - making them visibly and acoustically more transparent.
You can easily count the stator wires through the cloth.
rw
Ah....
It's good stuff, love the speakers too!
Arrrgghhh! I'm gonna be sick...
" Arrrgghhh! I'm gonna be sick..."
What, you don't like electrostats?
Opps...that post was supposed to be under the woman in the bunny suit...
I loved my Soundlab Prestines which I had for 20+ years, but I love my Danley SM60Fs even more! They are even more revealing, throw a bigger soundstage, have better imaging, are less affected by room acoustics, and of course are MUCH more dynamic!! It has been exactly one year today since I began enjoying these best-kept-secret speakers. I hear new musical details from every single CD in my collection and each listening session is like a private concert. They are by far the best hi-fi purchase in my 40+ years as a music lover!
Try here...
Try cutting up this fishnet blouse for your speakers. It has see-through transparency.
Sheer Nylon Panty Hose. Make a frame and stretch it over.
I would try to contact certain underwear manufacturers, I think they might know.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/147125-fabric-speaker-grill-cloth-suggestions.html
I'm wearing mine right now. So sheer you don't even know it's there. You should see the astonished looks people give me.
Me being a dealer makes you leery?? It gets worse... I'm a manufacturer too.
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