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In Reply to: RE: "worth the money" posted by RGA on September 10, 2021 at 19:37:00
Do you mean stacking an expensive shimmering junk in the small bedroom sized living rooms and claiming the supremacy in the audiophile world of the internet forums? Geez, I met many Asian philes and they are kind of the same. They like shimmering junk with a name behind it and have a means to buy it.
I like Audio Note. Liked it for several years because it uses a simple approach and delivers good results. It's rather expensive for what it is but many brands are way more expensive and do not provide fraction of what AN does. Do I think Audio Note offers a really serious sound? No, I don't.
Follow Ups:
"Do I think Audio Note offers a really serious sound?"
Given this is a SET board - I'd like to see which SET company goes to the lengths AN goes to - or any amp manufacturer for that matter.
Name me another company that designs and builds its own capacitors, resistors, transformers, volume pots, soldering materials, boards, Valve bases, speaker connections, cabling, etc.
Most companies, because they have to buy the parts, are forced to design around 'whatever' happens to be available from the parts bin at Tranformers-R-Us. And they have to "trust" that the "other" manufacturer did a good job.
Some people value what is inside the box and not what the label on the outside of the box says. AN makes their own valve base because they're serious. And that's why they are desired doesn't he second-hand market because a certain segment values the idea when they buy an Audio Note the majority of parts in the box are made by Audio Note - not a Chinese transformer and valve bases from Cambodia and wiring from South Africa made by some guy in his garage.
Show me which maker makes their own valve base and you can come back to me about who is serious - at 10 minutes. And skip to 31:30 - serious?
There is nothing about AN E speakers that is remotely connected to the subject of this thread.
Give it a rest.
Yes my bad for using my speakers as an example - my first reply and the main point was system synergy.
I have been on forums for over 20 years and it's the same posts over and over - what do you think about this amp or this tube and in virtually 100% of cases the person answering the question has not heard said amp with your speakers, your cables, your source players or in your room. And they may not listen to the same kinds of music you do. A person who listens 95% to big orchestral works and pedal organ has a different requirement than someone who primarily listens to Eva Cassidy or The Eagles.
The 211 sounds more powerful than the 300B - I like the way Hong Kongers describe amplifiers perhaps because English is their second language but the 300B is described here as a Lady amp - which is to be taken as beautiful and pretty and gentle. The 211 is like Indiana Jones. Big and bold with enough gentility that it never becomes brash or overbearing.
But all of that can change depending on the speakers.
I spoke to Steve Hoffman about amplifiers as he has been attending audio shows for 40 years and has mastered the likes of Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Eva Cassidy, Pink Floyd, Linda Rondstadt, Art Pepper, CCR, Bill Evans, Sonny Rollins, Gene Amons, Wes Montgomery, Duke Ellington, Johnny Cash, Nat King Cole, Ray Charles, The Eagles, The Doors, The Beatles, The Beach Boys, Metallica, Van Halen, Sinatra, Steely Dan (Aja), Steppenwolf, (you get the idea).
And his favourite tube is the 211 and he has both the Audio Note Jinro and Ongaku.
Audio Note is crushingly expensive for a 211 amp which is why I opted for the 2a3 Empress. But it doesn;t have the big tone of the 211.
There are monoblocks from Opera Consonance - I tried to get a pair for review but Opera told me they were pulling out of the west and didn't need English language reviews.
I did buy the Line Magnetic 219IA integrated as a kind of poor man's Jinro. That amp along with the Jinro has a softer more valve-like presentation than my Empress.
I mean you already have AVM amps that output 1000 watts into 2 ohms (am I correct?) and so if you want to listen to maximum volume symphony music you have that already. If you want the beautiful smaller music at normal levels then I would opt for the amps that add the pretty and the beautiful. 2a3, 45, 211
A secondhand Line Magnetic 219IA should be fairly reasonable and has 24 watts per channel - it's just really really big and heavy 55kg.
I think it takes more money to do 211 well due to more demanding output transformers and power supplies etc. And while some outfits in China offer lower-priced units most don't really sound as good as you'd hope.
If you look at Chinese units - Cayin is pretty good - they actually make the transformers for Line Magnetic and Prima Luna. I recently auditioned a really superb-sounding anniversary edition 845 integrated from them - it runs $5,000 USD in Hong Kong. Perhaps they have affordable 211s. Ditto a company called Sound Master (Not Mastersound). They still make the only KT88 amp that I liked.
HK is a nice market for classic JBL - Japan is probably better though.
The first sign of a racist is lumping everyone into one box. Maybe check that at the door.So let's take your nonsense point by point. Audiophiles come in all shapes and sizes - the LS-3/5a is hugely popular here because they are small and fit relatively small rooms. They are, as are some other speakers, quite good in small rooms. I live in such an apartment here, while I am here and I have 9-foot ceilings, 13 wide and 17 long - this is not massive but it's fairly close to a typical living room in Canada or the US. Having solid concrete walls, ceilings and floors are superior to a room with wooden walls that sing along with the music. I can choose a larger living space that would yield higher quality sound but I prefer living in the penthouse overlooking the ocean and having access to three clubhouses with three outdoor pools and 2 indoor pools and being a 1-minute walk to the white sandy beach. If I move to a village house I would get more space but no view and no clubhouses. So you make a sacrifice.
There is a limit to the sound that can be generated in small to medium-sized rooms. The ability to generate a realistic dynamic scale that a large horn speaker can offer in a larger room really can't be realized in a small medium-sized room (no matter what system you put it in there). It's a compromise. Albeit most big multiway speakers also have certain weaknesses that tend to bother me. It may impress in a big room at an audio show or a big room at an audio dealer but if it is stuffed into the average room it will probably suck.
As for expense - I bought the Audio Note J/SPe brand new in 2003 for $2500 and I sold it in 2016 for $2917 (+ $417 after 13 years) and that owner could sell it for more than he paid me.
And that was a rush sale as a friend sold it for me - it was also in the worst colour option - black.
I bought my Audio Note OTO Phono SE in 2003 - I can sell it for $400-$500 more than I paid for it.
I sold my Audio Note TT2 turntable in Hong Kong after 3 years of ownership for a couple hundred more than I paid.
So it sure doesn't "seem" too expensive to me. The same day I bought the Audio Note J/SPe - for the exact same price I could have bought the MM De Capo from Reference 3a ($2500). I saw a mint condition set here at a second-hand shop for $900.
So which brand is expensive? $2500 down to $900 is a $1600 loss - or the AN J (a much better sounding speaker which is why the value didn't tank) has a $417 gain. The De Capo and AN J both retailed for $2500 but the DeCapo actually costs you $2017 more a decade down the road - and it doesn't sound as good for the 13 years you owned it.
It's also somewhat reassuring that 10 years later if something breaks the company will be in business and still has replacement parts. That also helps the resale value. Plenty of companies change models 7 years down the line and it's bye-bye your chance to get a tweeter replacement.
There are some factors to consider here beyond sound. Like if I have to buy an amp or speaker from Switzerland from a handful of person operations and they have a proprietary design and 3 years later they go belly up and I paid $40,000 for the thing then what? I have a very expensive product from a tiny outfit using unobtanium parts? And good luck selling it.
Edits: 09/11/21 09/11/21
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