|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
74.65.208.93
In Reply to: RE: Tube amp clipping is akin to compression...... posted by PaulF70 on September 11, 2016 at 17:27:35
PaulF70 & others,
My 106+db horn system REQUIRES 20++ watts to sound "live"....Let me explain.
About 10yrs. ago I was bitten by the Lowther bug. After speaking to Jon Ver Halen on a speaker system, I wound up with a Medallion 2 cabinets and Dx-4 drivers. I thought had had this high end audio thing licked. I also had a pair of Cary 300b mono block amps, Cary SLP-05 preamp, Sony / Modwright cd/sacd player and all was well. Also in the mix was Medallion 3 cabinets with PM6a and Pm2a drivers to try. On simple music, these systems sounded very good but on large scale classical music, something was missing. It turns out several things were missing, low frequencies, mid bass snap, dynamics, clean, extended high end. I have attended almost all the audio shows like CES, Rocky mountain audiofest in search of answers. I listened to the big Sound labs, Maggies, Wilson and many others and realized I needed a bigger speaker system. At one of the CES shows I wandered into Dr. Bruce Edgar's room when he was showing his full Titan system and that was it. I have never heard such dynamics, clarity etc. and knew that is the type of system I wanted. IIRC Dr. Bruce was using a 30 watt tube amp from Cy Brenneman. I have visited Dr. Bruce's home and listened to his field coil version of the Titan system and was even more impressed so I asked him to design a mid bass horn using a pair of Altec 515b's and he did.
A few years ago I put together the following system:
1. Tweeter ---- TAD ET-703 with 107db sensitivity
2. Mid Range--- Field coil converted JBL 2441 with beryllium diaphragms connected to a Sierra Brooks solid wood tractrix horn measuring 25.5" at the mouth and 24" long. Should be about 110db sensitivity.
3. Mid Bass horn--- 2 Altec 515b's connected in parallel in a hypex horn measuring 32" x 45" at the mouth and 47" deep. should be at least 106db sensitivity. The horns in room are flat to 58hz and crossed at 400hz. The crossover is Dr. Bruce designed 6db.
4. Subwoofer's--- Pair of sealed 9 cubic foot using a pair of TC Sounds LMS 5400 18" drivers in dual opposed configuration. Powered by a pair of Crown I-Tech 5000hd amplifiers strapped to mono. The amps have built in DSP and crossover and go from 14hz to 60hz with 48db roll off.
Now, you would think that a horn system with a sensitivity of 106+db would get by with a flea powered SET amplifier---not so. I sit 17' away from the voice coils in a medium sized room 16' wide x 23' long with 10' ceiling. I have 2A3 mono blocks, Type 50 tube mono blocks, 300b mono blocks, 211 mono blocks, 845 mono blocks and none of them have enough power to convey the power and dynamics of large orchestral pieces such as The Rite of Spring or Mahler symphonies for example. You can also forget about the Joe Morello DMP drum cd and most of the Sheffield cd's. It takes a pair of Art Audio ( un cataloged ) mono blocks using a single KR T100 tube for 26 watts SET to make this system swing !! I expect 100db+ peaks at my sitting position when called for and if the an amp can't do it--it is out !! Perhaps I am spoiled by the mid bass power and clarity this system has but once you hear it,there is no going back. Flea power does not cut it for me. I don't like solid state amps on this system.
Follow Ups:
I conceptualise like this:
> Power & Efficiency (plus a few other factors) determine volume
> The sense of dynamics and vitality (within volume limitations) are down to other design factors... though increasing power can sometimes partially compensate.
Thankfully, I don't enjoy listening to music in my home at live levels, so I can compromise on power while saving my hearing to enjoy the occasional live gig. Still, I like a sense of vitality in music - the system still needs to be designed to achieve this.
Cheers,
91.
"Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein
I'm not surprised at all you need that kind of power. It's your passive crossover. I've had full horn setups as well (DIY & AV Trios) and noted they need some power despite the ~105 dB/W+ sensitivity.
No speaker is perfect, however, the Beauhorns have coherence that no front horn system ever will. I prefer them for jazz, which is what I listen to.
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: