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RE: NO,

131.111.18.172

In Reply to: RE: NO, posted by danlaudionut on August 20, 2015 at 08:38:16

"I don't count Tweakers Asylum because
they are too willing to find magic beans.
They are the other extreme from your ilk.
I refer more to the Cable Asylum and
their cable cookers and cryo treatments.
They trust what the hear and don't worry
about science to prove what they hear.
Science will eventually catch up."

Well, there is the problem; it is all a matter of degree, and where one draws the line. For you, magic beans are one side and cooked cables are the other side. For someone else, the dividing line comes somewhere else.

My view, since I cannot personally hear any of these alleged effects, is to use a common-sense application of understood scientific principles, and to be skeptical of claimed effects that don't accord with those principles until such time as they can be proven to occur. The proof could consist of electrical measurements that demonstrated that the alleged effect did in fact lie above the threshold of hearing. Note that I am not saying that one could necessarily predict from the measurements exactly what change the listener would "hear." But I would say that since one could easily measure electrical signals at the nanovolt level, and so on, it would be easy enough to estimate whether any measured changes could conceivably be audible to the human ear or not.

Or alternatively, the proof could consist of rigorously-conducted double-blind tests that established that there did indeed exist people who could reliably discriminate between the before break-in and the after break-in sounds. Just having people who know what they are listening to report that the sound has changed doesn't really cut the mustard. If one accepted such anecdotal reports as evidence, then one would have to accept what the magic-bean tweakers reported also.

Chris

Follow Ups:

RE: NO, - danlaudionut 10:55:30 08/20/15 (6)
So since you cannot hear a difference
therefore there must not be one.
Better to believe you are not
missing out on something than
to give credence to those that do.
Interesting

DanL
- RE: NO, - cpotl 10:58:22 08/20/15 (5)
  "So since you cannot hear a difference
  therefore there must not be one.
  Better to believe you are not
  missing out on something than
  to give credence to those that do.
  Interesting
  
  DanL"
  
  But the magic-bean tweaker would use exactly the same argument against you.
  
  Chris
  - RE: NO, - danlaudionut 12:34:54 08/20/15 (4)
    You have stated that you have hearing loss.
    I still hear above 20KHz - Big Difference.
    
    DanL
    - 20khz at 57 years old? - gusser 13:19:41 08/20/15 (2)
      Your membership profile says you were 51 in 2009.
      I know audiologists have different measurement scales than we use in electronics but I have to ask how far down in db or the sister audiologist scale is that 20khz?
      I crudely tested my hearing a few months ago with an oscillator and it is gone around 14khz. I am 55 years old and from what I have read, 14khz is considered good at that age. Again this was hardly an official calibrated hearing test.
      I'm not doubting you, but if you have flat hearing to 20khz at your age, you are part of a very small group based on standard hearing vs age scales.
      
      Edits: 08/20/15
      - RE: 20khz at 57 years old? - danlaudionut 17:42:50 08/20/15 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: 20khz at 57 years old? posted by gusser on August 20, 2015 at 13:19:41
        
        I am also very sensitive to peaks.
        I still can't handle metal domes.
        Their HF resonance gives me headaches.
        
        DanL
        
        RE: 20khz at 57 years old? - Tre' 18:07:30 08/20/15 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: 20khz at 57 years old? posted by danlaudionut on August 20, 2015 at 17:42:50
        
        "Their HF resonance gives me headaches."
        
        Me too and I only hear to 14kHz.
        
        Tre'
        Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
        "Still Working the Problem"
    - RE: NO, - cpotl 12:49:13 08/20/15 (0)
      "You have stated that you have hearing loss.
      I still hear above 20KHz - Big Difference."
      
      Well, if you could demonstrate in properly-conducted double-blind listening tests that you were able reliably to discriminate between the sound of a newly-soldered joint and a joint that had "broken in," then I would be happy to concede the point. I would be willing to bet that you would not succeed, though.
      
      Chris
DBT's don't work! - gusser 09:33:20 08/20/15 (0)
Haven't you heard the latest audiophile theory against DBT's.
Such testing is believed to be too stressful on the subject. The intense pressure due to the risk of being proven wrong creates an anxiety to where the subject can no longer focus on the subtle differences and thus hears no difference.
And the key word there is "subtle"!
When these outlandish claims are first presented, the reports are always "huge, ground breaking, night & day, my IPOD listening spouse even heard the difference".
But when pushed for measurements or DBT's, these "huge" differences suddenly become to small to measure or detect by controlled testing.
There is just no end to the BS and probably never will be.

Edits: 08/20/15

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